Group ride goes bad

Driving without a license in NY is a misdemeanor, so in this case that being a gang of motorcycles ridding recklessly all over the city and that resulting in lots of eligible misdemeanor traffic violations and a series of felonies as well, only the felonies are being pursued, that being the NYPD came right out and said that there are too many misdemeanors in this case for them to go after and they cannot waste the manpower on them.


Since they are only going after felonies then Miese is not going to be charged if he is or was then they would have to go after all of the misdemeanors of the entire group, every single one of them. It has to be fair and equal or they open themselves up to discrimination claims for who is charged and why.


Its kind of like the onset of anarchy in that they cannot address all the illegalities entirely and the riders now know that. If they do address all of tehm then it can result in suspension of drivers licenses and obviously has been already has in the past since half the bikes in the video have no plates and likely the riders have no current endorsements to ride them. So if the NYPD went after the plated bikes they would be converting them systemically to suspended and then likely the suspended would just keep ridding without endorsements. Both Miese and Cruz fit that profile, they are not charging Cruz with driving under suspension only his felonies, his charges are and have all been bumped up to felonies. His attorney is having him plead not guilty, which is not surprising and he is lying though his teeth now. Claiming that he only was changing lanes.


Now the twist is since they are not charging for misdemeanors, then Miese is not charged with anything and he is in a hospital bed, in comes Gloria Allred hot on that scenario readying a civil case against Lien. My best guess is that Lien may need to do the same and sue the city for damages, the damages do to him because they are not charging the rider with driving under suspension and also reckless operation.
Miese is clean and thats bad for Lien since he ran him over. The court can not consider the circumstances, that being how did he get there and what he was doing up to him getting run over, crazy huh.


People get law degrees for a reason, the law is a not that simple.


As for Cruz he is a complete tool and his attorney is a complete shark, he is probably getting paid for the video he is not likely to ever get paid by Cruz other then getting all the appearance fees or his family its possible that there are collection for his defense but who would contribute is not very obvious since he is so obviously guilty.


Miese is likely to get legal funds and for his medical care, Allred is booking talk shows with his wife, she likely is prompting her to cry and look sad, they all got make over to make them look mainstream and respectable.

Hi Pope

I am now confused :confused1: one post you say

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I personally would have beaten the shit out of his ass.

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Then in a later post you say

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They're lucky they weren't in Tennessee, because even my mom would have shot them at point blank range without leaving the vehicle if they started attacking her.

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so all i can say is you could of been shot by your own mum at some point if you was in the bike group...

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Originally Posted by prince666

Hi Pope

I am now confused :confused1: one post you say



Then in a later post you say



so all i can say is you could of been shot by your own mum at some point if you was in the bike group...

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I'm saying people in the southern states in the U.S. carry guns, including my dear, sweet old mother. Guns are banned in NYC (I think) This could've been much more tragic.

Upon further viewing, I think the driver of the RR and the bikers were equally obnoxious people and this is the result. He clearly hit the bike on purpose when the guy was brake-checking him.

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Originally Posted by ThePope

I'm saying people in the southern states in the U.S. carry guns, including my dear, sweet old mother. Guns are banned in NYC (I think) This could've been much more tragic.

Upon further viewing, I think the driver of the RR and the bikers were equally obnoxious people and this is the result. He clearly hit the bike on purpose when the guy was brake-checking him.

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That is a fair point and yes i would say as well all party was at fault some more then others !!!! and yes the RR drivers must of done something to upset the riders but the following action of the riders can no way be justified that is my point !!!!

You never should stare into a criminals face, that increases the odds of them killing you as they fear being identified.


We will never know but what we do know is that NG, that is Liens wife, called 911 four times in nine minutes. She may have done that and with looks of horror and or disgust at the passing riders.


An alternative would be to offer up a thumbs up or peace sign and exist the parkway.


One would be most likely to get you off and the other would be the mostly likely to get you fucked with?


Dealing with gangsters and or thugs is kind of touch and go, the last thing you want to do is offer up any signs of resentment and or disgust.. You would never want to let a person breaking the law see you calling on the phone as that could set them off.


The Liens are not guilty of anything, not anything they should be charged with other then not being able to get off the parkway without being harassed and chased down and beaten. It is not to say that there are clear cut proven ways to get away from a thug with anger issues, but there is better and worst approaches.


Some times smart people are just not that smart, the Liens were up against street thugs and it really got out of hand, getting away is a matter of smiling and waving, not about making faces and repeatedly calling 911 is it..


I am just guessing as the series of 911 calls reportedly were as panicky and in tenor, not so cool, not so wise. They panicked they are not street smart they did not get away they ended up being targets.

Mob mentality was at play, in this case.

The social psychology of this phenomenon has been extensively studied and reported on. People often act completely out-of-character when part of a larger group. The mob "feeds" on itself, with a spiraling "out of control" effect. To behave rationally and compassionately inside an angry mob is difficult for many, as you are effectively detaching yourself from your environment.

Obviously, this "group effect" is not always negative. For example, if you attend a rock concert, sporting event, mass religious assembly ... the effect of the group is profound. Watching the Rolling Stones live, in a crowd of 25,000 screaming fans, has an effect on one's own behaviour. An effect that causes behaviours which would likely be much different than if you were the only fan in attendance. Same with football (soccer) games ... 85,000 fans screaming for the home team has a powerful effect on one's psyche. This positive mob effect helps explain why people pay $100 (or more) for a ticket to the event - the experience is as much about the mob as it is about the performers/players.

With motorcyclists/bikers, who often relish the "tough guy" or "bad boy" image, putting yourself inside 500 bikers rampaging through public streets probably changes your behaviours and your perception/interpretation of what is going on around you. Your reference point is no longer "society-at-large" (which is what a solo rider might identify with), but rather your reference point is the 500 "outlaws" you are now engaged with.

The Liens found themselves trapped inside a mob. After the initial bump, the Liens pulled over (by the way, there is evidence that the bikers broke the driver's side mirror before the brake-check altercation). But the mob descended and started a viscous attack. Those who suggest that the Liens should have stayed and exchanged insurance information are not thinking this through. The Liens (including a 2 year old) were confronted with fight or flee, and the only rational choice was the latter. If Mr. Lien had gotten out of the RR and tried to reason with the knife-wielding bikers, what do you think his chances of having a calm discussion would have been? If Mr. Lien had been stabbed and died, the subsequent public opinion would have likely been that he should have fled and he was a fool to have exited his vehicle.

Frankly, I think the NYPD has to accept a healthy proportion of responsibility for this unfortunate event by allowing this mob to assemble and rampage, in the first place. There are reports that the NYPD received over two hundred 911 calls leading up to the Liens' situation. The "ride" was apparently publicized, and there was a history of Hollywood Stuntz wreaking havoc on NYC roads. The NYPD must have known the risks.

I do not see the Liens as rational or irrational, but as utterly naive to street culture. They likely drove in and why they did could have been in egoistical superiority or just really bad judgment. It is not their fault that they got chased down like a baby dear by a pack of wolves, the end result of the series of events ended with them being cornered and the husband being beaten severely. Nothing they could have done could have prevented that from happening?

I am reluctant to award them with rational thinking or irrational decisions either, but they had nodes of decisions to make on that day, they ended up with less then an ideal outcome. Intellect is and can only really be measured by adaptability to the environment in a moment in time and with optimum outcome and minimal damage. The Liens….not that smart.

I wish the story would get more interesting like Lien being part of Chinese organized crime and that his eCommerce business is all pornography…but we cannot ask for everything to play out so dramatically.

I wonder how many learning disabled or developmentally challenged people will read the above comment as factual?

I think a collective conscience would be the antithesis of a mob.

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The Liens….not that smart.

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I think the "liens was very smart lets see how much money the guy gets out of it at the end of the day $$$$$$$

No the Lien family is not likely going to get any money out of this, they are going to be sued by the guy they ran over, he will sue them for medical damages and loss of income. They will claim he did not offer a warning that he was going to run through the bikes that blocked him in, no horn, no revving of the engine, just a burst of speed. That is their case and that Lien was in road rage not in grave fear.

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Originally Posted by MJH

No the Lien family is not likely going to get any money out of this, they are going to be sued by the guy they ran over, he will sue them for medical damages and loss of income. They will claim he did not offer a warning that he was going to run through the bikes that blocked him in, no horn, no revving of the engine, just a burst of speed. That is their case and that Lien was in road rage not in grave fear.

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Did he not ask the guy to move then ???? i am sure he did i think he even asked 3 times thats all he will say game over get lost you not getting no money the public is on his side and that goes along way. At the end of the day the guy PUT himself in front of Lien car he put himself in danger

Cruz staged this….we all can see that, so the case is pretty weak and Misese claims innocence, but they were not, they boxed in the SUV intentionally and in that moment the Liens were likely scared to death.

Cruz staged that fall all the rest of the riders behavior was and would be expected to follow as it did.

What is missing is the time line, the first encounter and the duration of time the SUV and the bikers are sharing the parkway. The 911 calls as an over lay on that, statements all have to match. But with so many riders its never going to be clear what happened.

It’s the Liens that need to present that time line, where they got on the parkway and when did they encounter the riders and how long did they ride within them? The 911 calls are within that.

You have to realize that if you are on the roadway with a pack of bikers of that size, that sharing the road with them changing lanes and maneuvering within them would be seen by them as threatening. They would expect most to get to the right and slow down, not only expect that they would actually demand it.

Since the ride was unsanctioned and there were not police road blocks or any kind of restrictions on others, sharing the road with them is totally legal and everyone’s right and no need to yield to them.

That is what I see this as and that the truth is never going to be told. The bikers are going to claim they were inside the law, that they were sharing the road and did not take offense to passing them and merging into them. They are claiming that all Cruz did was change lanes and he got hit from behind by the SUV.

Cruz is going to get convicted, he has little to no chance of getting off on this. He is hiding the truth and if he was actively addressing what he saw as a violation of their space and they wanted to teach the SUV a lesson then he needs to come clean, but he will never, he will lie and go to jail anyway. That will take out Mieses and his case pretty succulently, he was party to the imprisonment and could be eventually charged but his role was cut short so that is not likely.

We will never know how far they would have gone on the parkway, its unlikely that they would have dragged Lien out of the vehicle at that point, but the staged accident Cruz procured could have been enough to enrage the other riders to that point. Running over Mieses certainly was enough after that it was irreversibly out of control.

The group around the SUV just prior to the “accident” all could be charged with imprisonment as accomplices to Cruz. That includes Mieses and the others around that SUV.

To me the time of the first 911 call is very material, when did the grave danger become real, was it before the accident or after? Then how long was the SUV on the parkway with the riders before that?

It is important because danger was present as soon as the SUV shared the parkway with the SUV and the best action to take at that initial encounter would be to remove the SUV from the parkway. But the 911 calls may have not occurred until after the accident and then removing the SUV from the parkway was unwise and at an exist with known congestion doubly unwise. A question would be did dispatch advise getting off the parkway? Then the other would be once the accident occurred and a 911 call was made would it ever have been ended? I would think not, leads me to believe that a series of calls must have been made and any after the Liens had driven over people it would have been a call that would have been held until police arrived.

Any case against the NYPD would revolve around that, the 911 calls and the escalation of events. If they occurred before the “accident” and what was said, the advice should have been get off the parkway and avoid conflict. They were in fact in danger as soon as they came in contact with the riders, it became most grave after they ran one down.

There are two basic driving behaviors, offensive and defensive, I believe this case may represent both being offensive driving, the motorcycle riders were all offensive, I also believe that the Liens were as well or this incident would never have occurred.

Offensive drivers take risks and defensive drivers avoid risks.

Defensive drivers assume nothing were a offensive drivers do make assumptions, often they will say something to the effect as I thought you were going to turn, or I thought you would slow down or thought you would not have braked that hard…typically after an accident where their assumption brought about a collision.

The most offensive of drivers will eventually have their licenses suspended. They accumulate points and typically pay the most for insurance, they are or become what is called high risk. Then some simply go off the grid both Cruz and Mieses are that type they drive or in this case ride with out a license, both had them suspended. If you see a biker or group of bikers without plates a red flag should go up, if you see a 1991 rusted out car with temporary tags that also should send up a flag. Seriously some people are underclass and they are not all terrible people but they have very little to loose and they are and should never ever be challenged. They live life day to day and looking down on them if they see it or sense it will open hells gates.

I am trying to discern as to what if anything the Liens did if anything that brought about the wrath of these people. I suspect that it was them and their egocentric superiority, not everyone can adapt to social classes and in this case or instance of how to deal with a gang of stunt ridding motorcycle riders on the Henry Hudson they failed miserably and so many saying that they would have attained the exact same score or worse is really sad.

So far this year, New York police say they've seized 1,440 motorcycles, quad and dirt bikes, including 57 the day of the melee, as they crack down on illegal and dangerous motorcycle riding. At least 437 people have been arrested, including 187 for reckless driving or reckless endangerment, not including those arrested in the assault.

This looks to be some pretty damming evidence, the right front tire is completely gone.
There is also the marks of the collision and on that same side of the vehicle, were they slashing at that right tire. Was somebody slashing the tire when Mieses was run over?

I wonder if the police have the remains of the tire? They need it because it came off and why needs to be determined.

My bet is that Edwyn Miseses was the slasher and got ran over while doing it.

They will need to figure that out, it looks like Cruz and Mieses were a tag team, its also likely why they both are making blatant lies. Both of their attorneys need to be questioned as to why they are encouraging their client to lie, when there is some real damming evidence that contradict their clients stories.

http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com...er19.jpg?w=915

The prosecutor needs to identify every person in the video that boxed in that SUV each one should be charged with felony false imprisonment, they all were accomplices.

They have been working on the beating and have been charging those involved in that for the assault, but they have to move back to this initial incident and begin filing more charges there.

They have only seven so far they could likely get up to about twenty or more felony indictments.

In the wake of the Stuntz group debacle, from which the New York Police Department (NYPD) suffered a lot of criticism for not stopping them earlier, we have the following ...

For those behind the GFW, this is a Youku video of the NYPD setting up a "catch net" for a large group of skateboarders heading out on a "group ride".



And for those with outside access, the original youtube video ...



Perfect background music.

I read a newspaper report from last weekend where a large group of motorcyclists were stopped by police/LEO's with a number of motorcyclists within the group ticketed and others arrested. I don't have the link now, and cannot recall which city or state in the USA this occurred.

I was skateboarding on a college campus here in Guangzhou last year when I guy on an ebike raced up beside me saying, "You can't do that here!" and then proceeded to pull in front of me and and brake or basically run me off the road. After about 100 yards of this and me just dodging him and pressing on I finally stopped and asked him, "can I drive a car, bike, or motorcycle on the campus?". To which he replied "keyi". I then asked him if I could walk or run on campus, to which he replied, "keyi". "So I can drive a bike, motorbike or car on campus, and I can run and walk on campus, but I can't ride this?" He just looked at me in befuddled amazement and drove away.

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Originally Posted by ThePope

I was skateboarding on a college campus here in Guangzhou last year when I guy on an ebike raced up beside me saying, "You can't do that here!" and then proceeded to pull in front of me and and brake or basically run me off the road. After about 100 yards of this and me just dodging him and pressing on I finally stopped and asked him, "can I drive a car, bike, or motorcycle on the campus?". To which he replied "keyi". I then asked him if I could walk or run on campus, to which he replied, "keyi". "So I can drive a bike, motorbike or car on campus, and I can run and walk on campus, but I can't ride this?" He just looked at me in befuddled amazement and drove away.

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hehehe, remember though... it's a logic free zone

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Originally Posted by ThePope

I was skateboarding on a college campus here in Guangzhou last year when I guy on an ebike raced up beside me saying, "You can't do that here!" and then proceeded to pull in front of me and and brake or basically run me off the road. After about 100 yards of this and me just dodging him and pressing on I finally stopped and asked him, "can I drive a car, bike, or motorcycle on the campus?". To which he replied "keyi". I then asked him if I could walk or run on campus, to which he replied, "keyi". "So I can drive a bike, motorbike or car on campus, and I can run and walk on campus, but I can't ride this?" He just looked at me in befuddled amazement and drove away.

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One time I stopped at a small motorcycle shop but was riding a bicycle to get there. The owner asked why I was interested in buying a motorcycle if I couldn't ride one. I said I had been riding motorcycles for many years. He looked highly confused.