Group ride goes bad

[MJH]

Driving without a license in NY is a misdemeanor, so in this case that being a gang of motorcycles ridding recklessly all over the city and that resulting in lots of eligible misdemeanor traffic violations and a series of felonies as well, only the felonies are being pursued, that being the NYPD came right out and said that there are too many misdemeanors in this case for them to go after and they cannot waste the manpower on them.


Since they are only going after felonies then Miese is not going to be charged if he is or was then they would have to go after all of the misdemeanors of the entire group, every single one of them. It has to be fair and equal or they open themselves up to discrimination claims for who is charged and why.


Its kind of like the onset of anarchy in that they cannot address all the illegalities entirely and the riders now know that. If they do address all of tehm then it can result in suspension of drivers licenses and obviously has been already has in the past since half the bikes in the video have no plates and likely the riders have no current endorsements to ride them. So if the NYPD went after the plated bikes they would be converting them systemically to suspended and then likely the suspended would just keep ridding without endorsements. Both Miese and Cruz fit that profile, they are not charging Cruz with driving under suspension only his felonies, his charges are and have all been bumped up to felonies. His attorney is having him plead not guilty, which is not surprising and he is lying though his teeth now. Claiming that he only was changing lanes.


Now the twist is since they are not charging for misdemeanors, then Miese is not charged with anything and he is in a hospital bed, in comes Gloria Allred hot on that scenario readying a civil case against Lien. My best guess is that Lien may need to do the same and sue the city for damages, the damages do to him because they are not charging the rider with driving under suspension and also reckless operation.
Miese is clean and thats bad for Lien since he ran him over. The court can not consider the circumstances, that being how did he get there and what he was doing up to him getting run over, crazy huh.


People get law degrees for a reason, the law is a not that simple.


As for Cruz he is a complete tool and his attorney is a complete shark, he is probably getting paid for the video he is not likely to ever get paid by Cruz other then getting all the appearance fees or his family its possible that there are collection for his defense but who would contribute is not very obvious since he is so obviously guilty.


Miese is likely to get legal funds and for his medical care, Allred is booking talk shows with his wife, she likely is prompting her to cry and look sad, they all got make over to make them look mainstream and respectable.

[prince666]

Hi Pope

I am now confused one post you say

I personally would have beaten the shit out of his ass.

Then in a later post you say

They're lucky they weren't in Tennessee, because even my mom would have shot them at point blank range without leaving the vehicle if they started attacking her.

so all i can say is you could of been shot by your own mum at some point if you was in the bike group...

[ThePope]

Hi Pope

I am now confused one post you say



Then in a later post you say



so all i can say is you could of been shot by your own mum at some point if you was in the bike group...

I'm saying people in the southern states in the U.S. carry guns, including my dear, sweet old mother. Guns are banned in NYC (I think) This could've been much more tragic.

Upon further viewing, I think the driver of the RR and the bikers were equally obnoxious people and this is the result. He clearly hit the bike on purpose when the guy was brake-checking him.

[prince666]

I'm saying people in the southern states in the U.S. carry guns, including my dear, sweet old mother. Guns are banned in NYC (I think) This could've been much more tragic.

Upon further viewing, I think the driver of the RR and the bikers were equally obnoxious people and this is the result. He clearly hit the bike on purpose when the guy was brake-checking him.

That is a fair point and yes i would say as well all party was at fault some more then others !!!! and yes the RR drivers must of done something to upset the riders but the following action of the riders can no way be justified that is my point !!!!

[MJH]

You never should stare into a criminals face, that increases the odds of them killing you as they fear being identified.


We will never know but what we do know is that NG, that is Liens wife, called 911 four times in nine minutes. She may have done that and with looks of horror and or disgust at the passing riders.


An alternative would be to offer up a thumbs up or peace sign and exist the parkway.


One would be most likely to get you off and the other would be the mostly likely to get you fucked with?


Dealing with gangsters and or thugs is kind of touch and go, the last thing you want to do is offer up any signs of resentment and or disgust.. You would never want to let a person breaking the law see you calling on the phone as that could set them off.


The Liens are not guilty of anything, not anything they should be charged with other then not being able to get off the parkway without being harassed and chased down and beaten. It is not to say that there are clear cut proven ways to get away from a thug with anger issues, but there is better and worst approaches.


Some times smart people are just not that smart, the Liens were up against street thugs and it really got out of hand, getting away is a matter of smiling and waving, not about making faces and repeatedly calling 911 is it..


I am just guessing as the series of 911 calls reportedly were as panicky and in tenor, not so cool, not so wise. They panicked they are not street smart they did not get away they ended up being targets.

[Lao Jia Hou]

Mob mentality was at play, in this case.

The social psychology of this phenomenon has been extensively studied and reported on. People often act completely out-of-character when part of a larger group. The mob "feeds" on itself, with a spiraling "out of control" effect. To behave rationally and compassionately inside an angry mob is difficult for many, as you are effectively detaching yourself from your environment.

Obviously, this "group effect" is not always negative. For example, if you attend a rock concert, sporting event, mass religious assembly ... the effect of the group is profound. Watching the Rolling Stones live, in a crowd of 25,000 screaming fans, has an effect on one's own behaviour. An effect that causes behaviours which would likely be much different than if you were the only fan in attendance. Same with football (soccer) games ... 85,000 fans screaming for the home team has a powerful effect on one's psyche. This positive mob effect helps explain why people pay $100 (or more) for a ticket to the event - the experience is as much about the mob as it is about the performers/players.

With motorcyclists/bikers, who often relish the "tough guy" or "bad boy" image, putting yourself inside 500 bikers rampaging through public streets probably changes your behaviours and your perception/interpretation of what is going on around you. Your reference point is no longer "society-at-large" (which is what a solo rider might identify with), but rather your reference point is the 500 "outlaws" you are now engaged with.

The Liens found themselves trapped inside a mob. After the initial bump, the Liens pulled over (by the way, there is evidence that the bikers broke the driver's side mirror before the brake-check altercation). But the mob descended and started a viscous attack. Those who suggest that the Liens should have stayed and exchanged insurance information are not thinking this through. The Liens (including a 2 year old) were confronted with fight or flee, and the only rational choice was the latter. If Mr. Lien had gotten out of the RR and tried to reason with the knife-wielding bikers, what do you think his chances of having a calm discussion would have been? If Mr. Lien had been stabbed and died, the subsequent public opinion would have likely been that he should have fled and he was a fool to have exited his vehicle.

Frankly, I think the NYPD has to accept a healthy proportion of responsibility for this unfortunate event by allowing this mob to assemble and rampage, in the first place. There are reports that the NYPD received over two hundred 911 calls leading up to the Liens' situation. The "ride" was apparently publicized, and there was a history of Hollywood Stuntz wreaking havoc on NYC roads. The NYPD must have known the risks.

[MJH]

I do not see the Liens as rational or irrational, but as utterly naive to street culture. They likely drove in and why they did could have been in egoistical superiority or just really bad judgment. It is not their fault that they got chased down like a baby dear by a pack of wolves, the end result of the series of events ended with them being cornered and the husband being beaten severely. Nothing they could have done could have prevented that from happening?

I am reluctant to award them with rational thinking or irrational decisions either, but they had nodes of decisions to make on that day, they ended up with less then an ideal outcome. Intellect is and can only really be measured by adaptability to the environment in a moment in time and with optimum outcome and minimal damage. The Liens….not that smart.

I wish the story would get more interesting like Lien being part of Chinese organized crime and that his eCommerce business is all pornography…but we cannot ask for everything to play out so dramatically.

I wonder how many learning disabled or developmentally challenged people will read the above comment as factual?

I think a collective conscience would be the antithesis of a mob.

[prince666]

The Liens….not that smart.

I think the "liens was very smart lets see how much money the guy gets out of it at the end of the day $$$$$$$

[MJH]

No the Lien family is not likely going to get any money out of this, they are going to be sued by the guy they ran over, he will sue them for medical damages and loss of income. They will claim he did not offer a warning that he was going to run through the bikes that blocked him in, no horn, no revving of the engine, just a burst of speed. That is their case and that Lien was in road rage not in grave fear.

[prince666]

No the Lien family is not likely going to get any money out of this, they are going to be sued by the guy they ran over, he will sue them for medical damages and loss of income. They will claim he did not offer a warning that he was going to run through the bikes that blocked him in, no horn, no revving of the engine, just a burst of speed. That is their case and that Lien was in road rage not in grave fear.

Did he not ask the guy to move then ???? i am sure he did i think he even asked 3 times thats all he will say game over get lost you not getting no money the public is on his side and that goes along way. At the end of the day the guy PUT himself in front of Lien car he put himself in danger