JH600 stalling

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Originally Posted by MotoKai

I confess. I am guilty of tipping when my western sensibilities overcome me.Maybe I need to change-out the Motokai profile pic/avatar to this one:Attachment 6544

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To be more accurate, this is the image of a laowai before the tipping. What you can do is create an animated avatar combining the before/after images with a tip-induced transformation. What you had before is quite ok to serve as the after image. Cheers!

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Dear Milton,

Many thanks for this excellent, thoughtful and ultimately happy update. The irony is that Jialing, stupidly in my opinion, has managed to finally get your bike to a level of acceptability while totally squandering a wonderful chance to improve its reputation. Instead, they still have at best a jury-rigged customer support system that leaves owners of their bikes deeply frustrated despite their huge size and influence.

For example, think about Lao Jia Hou in Beijing, who owns not one but two JH600s (a single and a sidecar) but is so disgusted with Jialing for its foot-dragging and excuse-making that he's determined to dump the bikes, and will never have a good word to say for the company. This is the same guy who, more than a year ago, offered to swap out the whole EFI system at his own expense to end his absurdly dangerous stalling problem -- precisely what you've managed now to do -- but was told by Jialing that this was impossible. That's right: Impossible. Can't be done. So were they lying? Or just lazy? Or just really, really insensitive stupid fucks?

Now, after a year of pressure, Jialing moves forward with precisely the fix that LJH proposed -- and not only can it be done, it works (at least for now)!

But stupid Jialing does not elect to come out and say, like a mature adult, "We are sorry for the problems experienced by owners of our bikes with the 2.0 EFI, but are pleased to announce that by working with our customers we've come up with an effective remedy."

Instead, they will allow the story to fester here in MCM and other forums about how this gigantic company refused and dithered and ignored and basically told their 2.0 customers to go fuck themselves rather than coming out and making things right. If Motokai or I or any other 2.0 owners want to update, presumably we'll have to go begging to them too, and then pay whatever it costs to rectify Jialing's own faulty design. OK, we're happy to have this upgrade path, but not happy about Jialing's cupidity.

These Jialing people seem to be simply too stupid, and too far removed from the actual consumers of their products, to know any better. This is why Chinese companies have virtually no recognized international brands, and no skills whatsoever in building long-term customer loyalty. In Chinese this is called 一锤子买卖 "doing commerce with a hammer" -- if you deceive or coerce a customer to make a sale, they'll never come back. Lao Jia Hou will never again buy from this company, and will speak only ill of Jialing, and everyone who knows about his frustrations with Jialing will keep their distance too. As they should.

Fucking geniuses up there in Chongqing.

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Coucou Euphonius, I am totaly agree with you, but for this case, let me share you some political background analyse.
JiaLing Groupe leaders has been totaly changed during the past year, especially on the JH600 department (from design, manufacture to the whole sale system). There is no clear reason about it, may be it will happen several years later once again, in China, it's normal for a "state owner listed public company".
This is the key point why nothing has been improved since 2010 (old leaders know they'd go soon), and here the great change happens suddenly (new leaders need to show their capability asap).
and this is also why till now JiaLing hasn't appologized to his customers : As those probelems nothing to do with the new leaders of today. If they admit something officially, it will hurt the old guys who are probably higher than them now or one day... or it will creat more chaos on the market...
to be accurate, this problem mainly comes from the Bosch ECU, their representant in china refused to modify it anymore, or need to charge another big depense whatever, So the new Jialing leaders has cooperated with a new local partener to have made this change done finally.
but why they are really willing to solve this technical promblem currently? first, it can pleased their actual customers, and welcome more potential ones for the perfect JH600-A model; then they need to build up a closer relationship with their local parteners around china.
In this way, LIU Zhi Dong has made a great effort as much as he can at the right time (accompany one week of the customer visiting with JiaLing's new guys in SH, seriously noted every detail down, apply 0 fee for Milton's modification, collect all other suggestions from your riders and other dealers...), the result will be 3 points:

1. ECU 2.0 to 3.0 upgrade works succesful, better service in the future.
2. more support from JiaLing factory focused on technical issues and activity organisation.
3. much more refit requirments would be possiable soon.

As quite usual for a new leader: to creat something new and better, so this time another big motorcycle project is under discussing in JiaLing's lab. No More Bosch or AVL absolutly, mais quelqun vient de american nord alors... On verra bien!

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Originally Posted by nostalgie

Coucou Euphonius, I am totaly agree with you, but for this case, let me share you some political background analyse.

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Funny, I never ever heard that the CEO of Ducati is responsible for their stalling issues, or their spreading tanks, or their problems with the regulators.
Also never heard Toyota blaming the old Toyoda-San for their brake problems.
They acknowledged the problems (with some force, yes), issued recalls, and paid for it without bothering their customers.

What you describe is the typical Chinese excuse, used to get away with it, used as excuses for whatever happens.
-We should be open for that?
-We should accept that?
-We should pay the price for that?
-Or Liu ZD, who I guess never received a penny for all his work?
-Or Milton, who as far as I know did NOT receive his upgrade for 0 fee?

It might work like that in China, but that still does not make it right.

Eric

I agree with whatever Eric said - the lesbian fantasy should be fulfilled by the 3rd party supplier and in the event of customers complaints....sorry I'm losing track again. Okay, it seems I'm not quite comprehending what Eric or even nostalgie wrote. And for this I blame Eric.

Why? Because his new profile pic/avatar ("Twins Rock") kept distracting me. For this problem the blame solely lies with Eric.
With blame comes responsibility. If I'm not intelligently able to respond to this thread and take action, then it's Eric's fault, and the rest of you shall suffer.

Hmm...seems like the same argument that Jialing is using. So perhaps after all, I did understand what was written (distraction or not). But still - Bosch is to blame! (I mean Eric). Errr! Change your avatar damn it!

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Originally Posted by MotoKai

Errr! Change your avatar damn it!

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As ordered ... Or will this one give you a dry mouth as well :eekers:

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Originally Posted by 998S

As ordered ... Or will this one give you a dry mouth as well :eekers:

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You sure have a very diverse collection!! If this picture was just taken at your home, I think you must be very eager to get out for a ride!

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Originally Posted by Barry

You sure have a very diverse collection!! If this picture was just taken at your home, I think you must be very eager to get out for a ride!

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So now you know why none of my bikes has a passenger seat :icon10: self protection

ECU Upgrade Observations

Wasn't able to get a good ride in due to rain after picking the bike up from the shop this week.
But today I got a 30km+ ride in and was able to test her on some empty roads out by the airport.

Here's what I observed with the new ECU:
- The bike is faster now. Much faster.
- More responsive off the throttle. Doesn't hesitate.
- Finding powerbands in 3rd,4th,5th that I never knew existed.

1. So, per Eric's original observation the bike is NOW running richer. Therefore given how she's riding now, under the new ECU mapping the bike is simply getting more fuel - yes?
2. With the new mapping could there be a new design for the powerbands? Or is this again just a result of a "richer fuel experience"?

Interested to know thoughts from the Team here.

But in short - this bike IS A LOT OF FUN TO RIDE NOW! :riding:

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention: No stalls!
(This problem is now so far out of my mind, I forgot to report on it! haha) - Too funny!

Shall I answer?

Same observations as I made at Milton's bike, also faster and pulling harder in higher gears.
Tried a wheelie already?

From what I observed, I think the new map is significantly altered by Jialing.
The exact thing we concluded to do, but couldn't as we could not enter the ECU.
The changed map (in this case more fuel over the whole rpm range), gives indeed the extra power.
An other indication they had it all wrong with the V2.0.

Now, the only thing remaining is, if the poor Jialing can resist the increased power (and using of it) over time.
I personally have a bit of doubts, but I am sure there will be an other thread for that :icon10:.

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Originally Posted by 998S

As ordered ... Or will this one give you a dry mouth as well :eekers:

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E, you surely are having a good time, with Mommy not home and the "Great Wall of China" censorship lifted. Are you trying to tell a story with this serial of hot pictures? I can't wait for the next installment. Wondering when the motorcycle will finally show up.