Group ride goes bad

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Originally Posted by axa

ok tough guy, you can handle a NY mob on your own, for you and yours, got it...
everybody? ok let me be clear, all my statements were made with only myself in mind.

"never at risk"? having been forced to a dead stop on a highway doesn't put anyone at risk?

"only beat him up"? you seem to believe that is acceptable given the bikers incited the incident to begin with. someone starts with u, they 'only beat you up' its only fair.

your proving yourself foolish.

put it this way, i realize you live in a land of repression, but thats apparently your choice.
though in the US we tend to believe humans have a fundamental the right to live without having you or your property harassed, threatened, harmed, so on and so forth. As soon as you infringe or impose on the fundamental rights of others, you may forfeit those same fundamental rights.

And that is precisely why while after being evaluated in the public eye, only those thugs have been charged, and the driver will not be...

you share an opinion with very few people.

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+ 1:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Life in part is about conflict management, if you cannot defuse the situation then best choice is get out of that situation. If your choice is to escalate the conflict then that is also menacing behavior. There are people driving everyday that are menacing and many of them actually believe that are breaking no laws.


The motorcycle riders were all menacing that is clear in the video and other videos associated are demonstrating the behavior, they ride recklessly and are endangering others.


However how you address these menacing riders and what happen because of that is important, when is the use of deadly forces appropriate and when is it excessive?


I think I see evidence of what was excessive with the SUV, I think that there was a fast peeling off when what was needed was a warning and a slow and steady progression forward, driving over people is excessive. Serving notice as in giving warning is missing and in that I see liability for the drivers actions and what resulted in damages.


I also believe that these riders very likely only conflict with those that interfere with them and their reckless spree. I have suspicion that the action of the SUV leading to the start of the video were not intended to defuse and avoid the conflict, I see evidence that that may have escalated it.


When law enforcement was called then they should have consulted as advised the driver to get away and not to conflict or antagonize. I also believe that without restraint the victim becomes an equally menacing antagonist.


Without any video evidence of the events leading up to the video starting, the SUV pushing its 600lbs through a group of motorcycle, we do not know at what point the SUV may have become antagonistic, however witnesses may bring that out and if consistent then there may be also the possibility of reckless and menacing chargers filed on the SUV driver, who did not leave the scene and chose another way to address the group of menacing riders.


The driver of the SUV could also bring about civil lawsuits on the riders and also the NYCPD, these videos of riders and their blatant disregard of traffic laws are so incriminating and law enforcement not addressing them is a dereliction of duty. Also dispatch not advising drivers to avoid conflict is also a dereliction of duty.


If a call is made to 911 then its connection should be maintained and statements made and then investigations take place. But it is certainly the responsibility of dispatch to defuse conflicts and in cases like these it is not only about suggesting to leave the roadway it is about demanding that and if not respected could result in being charged with obstructing of justice.


If I was in the SUV I would have not been beaten down, I would have gotten away with no damages at all.
I would have then gathered up all the evidence and handed that evidence to the mayor and his chief of police and said solve this problem or I will hand you your asses.


So in some degrees Lien is a vigilante hero and in another he is a fool with the scares to prove it. But he brought it to the front as a vigilante does, they force it to the extreme, they stand their ground they become bad in addressing what is bad, they bring the lack of civil disorder to light.

It's funny that here in the US, most of the people commenting on articles about the video are on the side of the SUV driver.

On the Jalopnik link MJH posted, there was someone who was driving a car on the highway wheveryoo said this same pack would not let him change lanes when he entered the highway. They essentially trapped him in the lane he entered on which turned into an exit lane. Inspite of signaling and using hand signals, the group kept speeding up to prevent his entering the freeway, with some flipping him off.

He did state he did not see any of the actual incident, but couwld see they were clearly being assholes. I interpret that to be a more wild and reckless version of old fashioned biker gangs, out to cause havoc on the roads as if they are trying to have a mass protest against the rules of the road.

There are videos all over youtube of the same type of pack mentality riders doing the same thing on highways all over the US. The ones the people post of when cops become involved are quite happy to show and report them getting even more reckless in their quest to outrun the police, as well as report on police " harrassment" if they feel the police aren't playing by the rules, including one where the entire group of maybe 100+ riders completely slows to a crawl and en masse u-turn start riding the wrong way up a major highway's onramp and one gets a minor bump from a police car that was caught up in the fray (it did not look like he purposely hit the guy,either).

Its hard to digest all of that when it contains this...

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Originally Posted by MJH

we do not know at what point the SUV may have become antagonistic

they should have consulted as advised the driver to get away and not to conflict or antagonize.

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Do you believe with any real conviction that this dopey guy was 'antagonizing' anyone?

Was it like he saw one bike rider, didn't notice the mob, and felt it was an ok idea to "antagonize" him?

Or are skinny asians in NY particularly known for "antagonizing" bikers while out for a sunday drive with the wife and kid?

Or is that this particular dweeb, has a set of steel balls the size of church bells and felt that "antagonizing" these bikers was a feasible thing to do.

Regardless of what you say may have happened leading up to the point the biker stopped the SUV, (if anything at all cuz the NYPD investigation reveals nothing) the line was crossed when the bike tried to, and then stopped the SUV.
And just as speculative as your statements, i saw on one news broadcast it was was so they could clear the road to do tricks and what not...

Ill say i again, I have no idea how you guys are defending this shit.

This kind of excuse making will always muddy the waters, help give cover to those whom prey upon others.

You hear about it a lot with the ever so common story that some selfish fool gets drunk and mows someone down dead... And then they come out of the woodwork... 'they suffered enough', 'they have to live with it the rest of their life'

You can never prevent all stupidity, but if we as society clearly laid blame where it belongs, it would likely help curve stupidity before it begins

Some "truth" is starting to seep out ...

Biker organizes ride from his mom's basement

Yeah, another "tough guy" living behind a computer screen ... well, tough until mom comes downstairs.

Hells Angels comment:

"It’s always a few people who give us all a bad name."

Huh? Did I read that correctly? OK, fair enough.

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This story seems to have gone viral outside China - I view it/read about it on/in all the major western media sources. It appears that well over 90% of the commentators blame the bikers. Yet, I have not seen any report in any mainstream Chinese media outlet.

I have been following the active discussions on a couple of Chinese motorcycle forums. Interestingly, there seems to be about a 50:50 split on assigning blame.

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Hey mom? Can you bring me a sandwich?

Imagine it’s a few hundred yards to the west and on the Hudson Greenway and then instead of bikers it’s a group of seniors ridding rascal scoters. They get playful and scare a Manhattan socialite walking her poodle. She tries to avoid them but they box her in and then she panics and begins to fling poop at them, they attack her in response and she then in return starts kicking them over and one rolls into the river and sinks like a stone….whose fault is it and if you were the Manhattan socialite what would you have done?

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Originally Posted by MJH

... a group of seniors ridding rascal scoters.

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Hey there MJH ... are you talking about my riding buddies and I? :lol8:

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Originally Posted by MJH

... they attack her ... what would you have done?

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I would've gone for the poodle ... I hate those little things.

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Originally Posted by MJH

Imagine it’s a few hundred yards to the west and on the Hudson Greenway and then instead of bikers it’s a group of seniors ridding rascal scoters. They get playful and scare a Manhattan socialite walking her poodle. She tries to avoid them but they box her in and then she panics and begins to fling poop at them, they attack her in response and she then in return starts kicking them over and one rolls into the river and sinks like a stone….whose fault is it and if you were the Manhattan socialite what would you have done?

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Yeah well it wasn't was it... one cannot and should not compare this with that.

The subject at hand was a real situation with real consequences and the other is an altogether different hypothetical scenario. So what is the point of some hypothetical this or that. Waste of time. No one situation fits all.

None of us were there in that moment, at that time, faced with all the stressors or thoughts, and actions some of which, if not many were outside ones locus of control.
We have very little information or insight into what background all the participants have, nor previous experiences that might influence ones reactions and decision making.

All the information we are getting is less than 100% factual, no matter how a journalist/then editor tries to play it out.

When I watch the video (which is subjective as not one of us will process what we see as exactly the same as the next person), I see a black SUV driven with loads of restraint, given what transpired in the latter portion of the video I watched uploaded onto Youku, nor what supposedly had preceeded it. There's loads of context missing, the supposed video from before the en-mass group ride along that freeway then to the altercation where the SUV strikes the bike and rider parked across the SUV exit/escape path, and then the beating of the SUV driver.

What surprises me somewhat is not one of the motorcycles seemingly collided with one another given how unpredictable various riders appeared they were with their riding positions. Though this is of little consequence or significance in the greater scheme of things. What is also suprising is there doesn't appear to be any mention of any gun used or brandished during this whole saga, which given Americans propensity for the 'right' to bare arms comes as a surprise to me.

Unless one has ALL the facts, then one really ought to reserve judgement. Unless one was in that very situation then how the ____ can anyone else pass judgement!

You know the AARP can get pretty rambunctious, particularly on issues of Medicare and or Social Security entitlements, There may have been a rally that weekend and some attending tea baggers may have riled up the seniors and could have brought about the whole incident, creating a mob like mentality.


I read that the Manhattan lady has a phobia of getting old and may have seen the group as a vision of what she could end up like, she was not fighting off them, she claims, just the thought of aging. She denies rumors that she said they are nearly dead anyways when asked how did it make her feel when you heard one had drowned in the river.


Other sources claim that the seniors became mob like when told that Obamacare is to balance the budget by cutting off Medicare and prescription drugs, they were told it is a plan to kill off seniors to insure social security remains solvent.


Some believe that the seniors planned to rob the Manhattan socialite, they saw her wealth and wanted to take some of it and her having a poodle made her look weak and an easy target, some say.

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Originally Posted by MJH

Imagine it’s a few hundred yards to the west and on the Hudson Greenway and then instead of bikers it’s a group of seniors ridding rascal scoters. They get playful and scare a Manhattan socialite walking her poodle. She tries to avoid them but they box her in and then she panics and begins to fling poop at them, they attack her in response and she then in return starts kicking them over and one rolls into the river and sinks like a stone….whose fault is it and if you were the Manhattan socialite what would you have done?

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ok this has gone the way of stupid but ill bite...
just tell me which part of that story equates to bringing traffic to a dead stop in the middle lane of a highway