Had an accident

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Originally Posted by barnone

Slabo,
You are handling this crash very well. I would agree that there is fault to share between you and the young lady.

Two questions:
Why do you keep mentioning that you were wearing a full face helmet? Are you implying that it obstructs your vision?

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I see perfectly fine with the full face helmet, but I'm just not used to it. I won't say I can't see with the full face helmet, just don't see the same as my regular helmet. I have to move my neck differently maybe... Something, just different. Just replaying the incident in my mind, I don't remember seeing the girl. I only know from my girlfriend and later the girl's statement that she crossed from over the fence. But really, I just saw her bouncing off the front of the bike.

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Originally Posted by barnone

Why were you riding in the bus lane? I assume it is a lane reserved for buses but I could be wrong. Most bus lanes around here are for buses to stop and load/unload passengers.

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I ride like a pingpong ball between cars and busses, bouncing off everything, trying to keep a safe distane all the time. Like barry said, the left most lanes are reserved for buses, the two middle lanes were blocked, and I wanted to turn left ahead, so I took the bus lane. It's not really an offence, I didn't really get in anyone's way. Well, I did this time, ouch.

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Originally Posted by Wrangler

What? Your bike got taken? Totally ridiculous. The police are just using it as leverage to expedite resolution of the "case", even though they are too lazy to document it. Again, fulfilling their role as a mediator rather than enforcers of the law (which in western terms is supposed to represent justice).

Slabo, you are truly the gentleman for putting up all of this with a great attitude.

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Err, not trying to be a gentleman. I live here, and most probably I will marry a Chinese woman. I can't keep looking at things from my foreign perspective. I must see it from the Chinese point of view or I'll go crazy. Imagine I were in this alone... awww, I would probably flip and punch everyone in sight. Nothing would make sense. If I have a one in a million opinion compared to my surroundings, and chose to keep it, I'd be seen as a ~~~ I can't find the word.

I've seen and heard of many situations like this before, although usually property damage and not injury. A few years ago an American friend was stationary at a red light and was hit from behind and forced to pay 500RMB, because a crowd turned up and developed an opinion that the foreigner should pay because he is richer (but 0% at fault). In China the compensation rules and culture don't make sense, nor ideas about road rules. Because of this using a motorcycle in a Chinese city is fraught with danger, that if the worst happens you are very likely to be paying money to someone who is at fault. More time riding in a city or town means more risk, and that if you hit any cyclist, ebike or pedestrian it will almost certainly be considered your fault. Don't feel bad about it, the situation can be just as ridiculous between Chinese road users.

My attitude is after 8 years here, I always save the motorcycle for the long rides out of town that help me unwind, especially if I'd be riding a motorcycle less than 4km, bicycles keep you fit. However we all live in different size cities where riding a bicycle can be impractical due to the distances involved.

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

My attitude is after 8 years here, I always save the motorcycle for the long rides out of town that help me unwind, especially if I'd be riding a motorcycle less than 4km, bicycles keep you fit. However we all live in different size cities where riding a bicycle can be impractical due to the distances involved.

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ZMC888 makes a tremendously good point here. Those of us who attempt to use a motorcycle for daily transportation in these Chinese megacities are at far far greater risk of getting slaboed (Naim, your handle is now a verb!) than those of us who use it only to get OUT of town. I'm in my 50s and live in a giant city of more than 20 million souls, but I rarely if ever venture out into the city on my motorbike. Too much stress, too much risk, and, above all, far too little enjoyment. Unless it's unreasonably far, like more than 25km, I'll get there by bicycle. In fact, I pride myself on my ability to get pretty much anywhere in Shanghai quickly and efficiently and "healthfully" on a pushbike. That's not to say I haven't had accidents on the bicycle; I've had two very serious ones, one under the wheels of a taxi and another caused 100% by an aggressive motorcyclist.

But I'll keep using the bicycle as my primary transport, backed up by buses and the awesome metro and, once in a very blue moon, a taxi. Personal preference, and won't work in all cities, especially those with lots of hills or frigid winters, but in Shanghai (and Beijing, though less so due to the huge distances and the takeover of bicycle paths by cars), bicycling is awesome.

cheers

Yes, true. Riding in rush hour in a city is risky. That's one reason why I don't totally blame the girl.
I also have a roadbike, and I really enjoy riding it. But got used to the motorbike chauffeuring the misses around. Sometimes I have to be in many places with a laptop in one day and the bike is just perfect for that. But yes, I do take responsibility for being a lazy. When I got the bike, I always said I will only ride outside the city. OK, so finally now I know who to blame for all of this.!!! Fight tonight!

Slabo, you seem to be the most level one in this whole situation and i admire your rationality!

I probably would have done the same thing and then hated myself for it as my all savings were being raped. After reading all the comments, i reckon wanglong is the one i'd go with. Do the right thing if you can be sure that you've protected yourself first, don't leave anything up to good will or open for argument.

Jape, when did you become the china expert? I, and i'm sure most others on this forum who actually live in china, came here years ago full of ideals and concepts of fairness. Watching friends get dragged through shit and bullied by police for months because someone else didn't look while they going through red lights slowly washes those ideals out of you. Someone coined it a few posts up there: getting hit by, or even hitting, a foreigner means payday. There's usually no fairness involved, it's just "let's see how much we can get out of him". Does 40000RMB for a broken arm not illustrate that clearly enough?

Of course there are exceptions where both parties settle the situation fairly and in a civilised way, but those are exceptions. 99% of the time you better be wearing your chastity belt as you've got a nice reaming coming your way. Jape you could do worst than listening to the ones who live here for your upcoming trip to china. It's not the same here.

I'm not a China expert Felix and I never pretend that. I always say somewhere or other that I am often talking generally and responding to tone or manner. Too much bullshit western arrogance knocking the Chinese is what comes over on here, too often. Ex-pat club of cynical westerners who know best and everything they see is wrong, stupid, TIC. If you have become weary of it, then go back to 'wherever' and get a reality check about downtown back home is what I reckon. Then return and appreciate the place called China even if it isn't a suburb of some western town or stay home. Your last sentence is exactly what I have been saying. It is obviously not the same there, so suck it up an d go with it.

But td-ref also told me I was wrong and I am not going to argue with him even if I would with you.

I have lived and worked in many places around the world and I learned a bit I hope, over four decades of that since I first left UK. And Chinese philosophy and so on has been a minor interest of mine for 40 yrs as well when everyone else thought they were the 'yellow peril'. I read Sun Tzu when I was 20, it was a mandatory part of my training and I became fascinated. but a couple of books doenot make me an expert. Yup. Just opiniated.

As you rightly say, I may find it intolerable when I come over. But I don't think so. I recognised many many years ago that the Ugly American and the Arrogant Pom were causing a lot of trouble around the world. when I was your age we were jointly napalming half of Asia and setting up Heroin factories to fund it. And in Eire and Northern Ireland where I have spent a LOT of time, UK was never flavour of the month. Your generation is changing that a lot but unconsciously the attitude is still overt to any one sensitive to it. My generation just went in and shot any fucker argued with us or wnated not be enslaved, economically if not literally, aye, in Ireland as well. I just do what I can to pass on my experience, my philosophy and understanding. I don't call it wisdom, that's not for me to say. However, I usually continue anything I say in forum by PM if I think further explanation is required or that I have inflamed an issue inadvertently.

Not that I mind a stoush sometimes when I am bored or grumpy, however I usually just shake my head at the amount of stupidity some express. That is nothing to do with 'China' it is usually simple ignorance of basics in human nature. I am sick of it, so I say what I say and hope to make a small difference.

Everyone else is an idiot but me :lol8: Just joking.

I find discussion here interesting. A little bit shaking here and there. Criticism and counter criticism. Usually that is the way to go unless people begin to be too emo.

I myself am very bored to hear bashing of western culture. Luckily it is not so fashionable anymore as it used to be.

What is interesting to think how the world would be without western culture :eek2::eekers::eekers::eekers: Noooooooo!

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Originally Posted by jape

Too much bullshit western arrogance knocking the Chinese is what comes over on here, too often. Ex-pat club of cynical westerners who know best and everything they see is wrong, stupid, TIC...

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Actually Jape i could not agree with you more, one of the things that has absolutely not changed in me since i moved here is how i hate to see some foreigners shit on everything about china. That there is an attitude, not longevity of expatriation. You meet people here who have been in china two months and already reckon that everything they do is superior to their hosts, from the way they eat to the shape of their poo. I don't like that attitude and get embarrassed when i see it. These dickheads make the rest of us look bad and can *uck off right back to where they came from. Pardon my languag*.

Part of the price of accepting a foreign culture though is dealing with what you think is wrong. We're talking about a place where it took 5 minutes for someone to muster up the courage to help ChinaV out from hanging upside down by the leg in a rubbish filled ditch for fear of what might happen to them. You WILL get screwed. I always try to be charming and pleasant to my hosts and am grateful for every day they let me spend here, but if the 'accident situation' arises i don't know. If i'm in the wrong i will suck it up and accept the consequences, of that i'm sure. But in the case that i get in a crash for someone else's mistake, that i'm ok and they are too... i don't know man, i may just run. I would never leave someone on the side of the road, i couldn't bring myself to do that. But if they were in the wrong, they were ok and i could get out of there, i don't think i'd wait around to see what the police think about it.

Having written this might make me look like a right asshole, that may be, but understand that the minute i set foot back home these attitudes change. For here i don't know, i'm still undecided about the best way to act in a situation like that and am open to debate.

Everyone usually thinks what they do or think is the best way to think of what they know - else they would think in some other way. Further because of that everyone usually thinks they know how other people should think.