JH600 stalling

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Originally Posted by Barry

That's a nightmare part of the JH600, taking it apart is one thing. Putting it back together is a pain in the ass however. But I could give it try since mine is fixed with tie-wraps already, I broke the damn thing when I replaced the filter. I have another new filter as well!

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Barry - You are not experiencing stalls (correct?). If this is the case, then I wouldn't advise you tweaking anything on your bike for now. If what I remember hearing is right, then let's focus on LJH's bike to find the fix. One-Fix-At-A-Time to isolate the cause.

Also, I have the contact at Bosch here in Shanghai. I personally have a German Nachname which should get me quick access to the China CEO :deal: (not) so if there aren't any Deutsch Freiwilligen, then I'll step up.

And LJH - Remember the Brazil card that you hold in your pocket. Pull it when you need it (or let Jing pull it). It can be a motivator!! They've made a big investment to launch this bike overseas.

Yes, exact!
If you are handy, you might make something sliding, operated from outside (like a choke-valve) and you can play "on the spot".

Interesting thread by the way, did not see that one yet.
What about him or Frankie, are they able to help with some good contacts? Seems they are well connected.

E.

Not a huge amount of stalls like LJH was experiencing, but I do have stalls. But I might be the only one without 30 sec. stalls.

The ride to my work is barely 5 KM. I have the feeling that if I let the exhaust header get glowing from a cold start before I take off, that I get no stalls. But it could also just be that I get lucky with traffic lights and so on, that I don't have to slow/shift down to often sometimes. And other times I might have to slow/shift down a lot of times on my way to work/home. Should I start counting every shift/slow down and every stall?

Have some electrical tape with me, not sure how easy I can reach the intake! Will have a look later.

Ok, things start to roll, although not with the good results as hoped for yet:


1. LJH has contacted the Jialing service centre, all as reported this morning on the website,

2. Chinabiker has been in contact with AVL, only to have the phone conversation cut short by an angry engineer, who was refusing to even listen,


However, Chinabiker made 2 very good suggestions:


- He advised a friend in BJ, who has a BMW service centre, and who will surely try to help.
I forwarded the info to LJH, so he might pass by there with the bike, who knows he can hook it up?


- As it seems the one and only practical way to proceed officially is with Jialing. If Jialing is willing to help, the step to Bosch will be easier.
However, in order to prepare the case for Jialing, each owner might advise the details of bikes, so it can be collected in a file.
I am not able to organize that, but I am sure there is someone out there who is willing to pull the string on collecting and organising this info.

Suggest to collect the following info:
Bike type, year of purchase, frame- and engine number, ECU box number, type of fuel (90-93-97-98), etc.
If you can also scan scan and provide the inspection sheets from your last government inspection?
We will then compare them to emmission test from a BMW 650 and one from a BMW 1150.
This would give us more evidence that it is mixture related.


E.

Hi there.
Interesting thread and amazing to see how much efford from Eric (and others - Andy) being put into this case - and they dont have an Jh600.
Respect!!!


Eric: I agree with your - the engines are running to lean and it's a typicall problem for "old style engines" being "forced" to pass new environmental spec.: loosing power and smouth running.

But I don't agree about trying to block the air inlet to the enging - there will only be an effect with higher rpm and the stalling happens below 2000 rmp...or.....??
I dont know a lot about the JH600 - are the fuel pressure fixed...?? If possible, try to encrease the pressure with e.g. 10%
Good luck with the project - I will follow you on the sideline and pop up if I have any good ideas

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Originally Posted by 998S

Suggest to collect the following info:
Bike type, year of purchase, frame- and engine number, ECU box number, type of fuel (90-93-97-98), etc.
If you can also scan scan and provide the inspection sheets from your last government inspection?
We will then compare them to emmission test from a BMW 650 and one from a BMW 1150.
This would give us more evidence that it is mixture related.

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Dear Eric, LJH, Motokai, Milton et al,

Many thanks again for these tremendous efforts.

I'm outside China for a few more days so don't have all the data you've requested at my fingertips, but here's a start:

Euphonius JH600
Model year 2009 (reportedly the last one off the line)
Stalling pattern:
30 second stall: always
downshift/slowing stall: maybe once in 8 deceleration/stops; particularly vexing/dangerous if I'm downshifting and engine braking in a turn, as the rear wheel can briefly "chirp" and lose traction.
other stalling: rare.

also: as noted before, LZD in Shanghai had told me repeatedly back in 2010 that Jialing would be "updating" the ECU firmware toward the end of 2010, and several of us were focused on this. LZD said this was as much a commercial issue between Jialing and Bosch as a technical one, and that the key question was whether Jialing would agree to pay Bosch for the necessary firmware upgrade. This promised upgrade never came, then Jialing upgraded the EFI design in the 2011 model year, redesignating the bike as JH600A. Those of us with 2010 and earlier models were told, "No upgrade coming. You are sheet out of luck."

I'll have more complete information to you in a week's time.

cheers!

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Originally Posted by 998S

Chinabiker made 2 very good suggestions:

- He advised a friend in BJ, who has a BMW service centre, and who will surely try to help. I forwarded the info to LJH, so he might pass by there with the bike, who knows he can hook it up?

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Yes, thank you & Andy for the assistance. Andy will soon be back in Beijing for a short period, so we may take the JH600 up to the BMW specialist within the near future.

I've read on another forum that individual bike brands/models can object to be hooked up to another brand's diagnostic equipment. Victory MCs, for example, have been known to have an ECU brain-fart if connected to HD's ECU diagnostic computer. However, I am currently of the opinion that my JH600 might need an enema ... or at least a lot more fiber in its diet.

I remain continuously optimistic that we'll crack this one.

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Originally Posted by Morfar

But I don't agree about trying to block the air inlet to the enging - there will only be an effect with higher rpm and the stalling happens below 2000 rmp...or.....??

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Well, I don't completely agree with you :-)
It is surely not the solution, and as indicated, it might result in a power loss or stumble at higher rpm's, but you should be able to notice a richer mixture.
Best is to block a part of the inlet channel (inside the throttle body), if not poassible, then the filter, if not possible then the airbox intake.
For the JH600 the last option seems to be the only one without too much work.

Again, not an solution, just a check if it changes something in the behaviour, after which to remove the tape quickly...
Thanks for your thinking with us though, every suggestion is appreciated, specially if it is some thinking out of the box...

E.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

I'm outside China for a few more days so don't have all the data you've requested at my fingertips, but here's a start:

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I will start a new project next week, and will have less time to handle this case. Will not run away, still co-ordinate if necessary, and surely be available once we get to the ECU brain-surgery.

However, if any one of you can take the job of collecting the info, and creating the data-base?
Might be advisable for the future, and of help in Chinabiker's and LJH's attempts to contact Jialing and Bosch, and get them responding in a more positive way.

E.

Since I also suggested this early on, I'll provide my services for collecting information.

All JH/A/B 600 owners who have/are experiencing stalls, please provide the below information to me via MCM PM:
Name: Please provide full registered name (e.g. Chinese name if that's on the registration)
Bike Model: JH600/JB600/JH600-A
Model year:
Frame/Engine Number:
ECU box number:
Type of fuel (Octane):
Stalling pattern: Provide Brief Description
30 second stall: Yes/No
Other Comments:
Email Address:

Thanks,

Motokai