New Project Bike, SMC YB150

Hi all. Been lurking for a while and finally have something productive to add to the forum.

I just picked up a SMC YB150 to build to use in Mini-Motard racing series locally (GAMRA). SMC supposedly is based in the US using Chinese made engines and other parts. The dealer I bought it from, who carries KTM, BETA, Suzuki, Kawasaki as well, claims he has found quite a few parts that interchange with the KTM like wheels, cables etc. The frame certainly looks similar to the KTM 80 SX.

I presume this bike is built under other names as well. If anyone recognizes this bike any info you have would be helpful.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0.../IMAGE_027.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0.../IMAGE_028.jpg

The motor appears to be a direct copy of the CRF150F. The power feels pretty similar. Carbs are a Chinese brand I'm not familiar with Linhai(sp?)???

For starters I'm going to tear down the bike to the frame with motor in, and take a good bit of measurements and re-assemble with a liberal amount of loctite. After that I'll take it out to the trails for a good day of thrashing to find any other weak points, hopefully not blowing it up in the process :icon10:

Once I sort out any blatant issues, I'll be mounting some street tires to the existing wheels and seeing if I can get the suspension tight enough for a track day. The local organization runs on go kart tracks.

If all goes well with the first steps I'll do a complete build to make it more competitive, including

Upgraded mikuni/kehin carb
12" motard wheels/tires
Upgraded front brake system (calipers, master cyclinder, rotor)
Upgraded suspension front and rear

Any input is welcomed.

ACDM, you got yourself quite a project there! I'm sure we'd all like to see how it progresses and your thoughts on it's racing performance. Since there are so many pit/mini bikes made by Chinese manufacturers it will take some time to sort through photos or find someone who just inherently knows. Both are possible.

I'm interested to hear and see more about GAMRA...you guys got videos of the races? It would be nice is if manufacturers started direct distribution and could start sponsoring leagues like that. It really looks like an outrageously fun and relatively inexpensive to race.

:dirtbike:
CC

P.S. - Just checked out the MCN review of the bike. Overall high marks!
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bi...-2009-current/

I have high hopes for the project, and believe it can be competitive when completed. Looking around they seem to bear the closest resemblance to the Galaxy line, but again this is just at a glance. The engine cases are obviously different but the frame designs look somewhat similar. Who knows though???

I think the toughest aspect of the setup will be the suspension. I know a suspension guy who works primarily on mainstream motorcycle suspension, but I'm gonna see if i can send him the forks and shock to take a look at. We'll see.

ACDN,

Found a photo of an SMC bike in Supersignet's Galaxy Factory visit thread...so I guess Galaxy is the likely manufacturer.

Attachment 1140

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...-Factory-Visit

CC

Ah brilliant! Good find Carl.

Anyone know a source for Galaxy parts? US preferably but I'll take what I can get.

The Galaxy has the 2 piston brakes and nicer looking rotors, whereas mine has single pot units. Upgrades would be helpful.

HAHAHA... always with the questions! :lol8:

Not sure I've heard anything about Galaxy suppliers in North America. Your best bet is to go through SMC but if you're really enterprising, you may want to contact the manufacturer directly. Since I know Galaxy competes with their bikes, tell them you're racing their bikes in the US and would be willing to offer some simple promotion (maybe wear a jacket, hat stickers or something) in exchange for discount (or free) parts help. There's really no harm in trying.

AndyHird on MCM is a fellow from the UK who's been in touch with the factory and ordered a bike to be delivered. Not sure how that is going but he should certainly have some contact info.

CC

Haha, yes question questions. Well hey if anyone needs any info on Korean Bikes, namely Hyosung or Daelim, I'm your guy to go to.

I'll send AndyHird a pm. Thanks for the lead :)

Also, looks like a pretty standard Honda based engine on your bike. If your carb doesn't have an accel pump, see if you can find a generic one which will fit. I remember putting one on a bike of mine that had a similar engine and it really opened up power all over the place, especially on the top end. Again, not sure what your carb looks like but many of them are way too restrictive out of the box.

If I happen across a carb model/number that may work I'll let you know.

CC

The carb on it appears to be a knockoff of the Kehin(or is it Mikuni?) roundslide carb used on the CRF150F. When I tear down the bike I'm going to measure it up and see if it matches or not. I'd guess it does, it appears identical. Definitely want to change that out, as I just don't trust a no name carb. I've always had good luck with mikuni's and kehin's.

Ok so the project begins.

Today I removed all the pesky plastics to get down to the business of the bike, and see what's going to need to be fixed prior to putting this bike on the track.

After dumping the plastic this is what it looks like.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20014.jpg

First spot of trouble I found after the first run around on the bike was a leaky float bowl gasket. Not a major issue but needs to be repaired on a new bike. No pics of the leak but here's the carb, a Jing Ke. Never heard of that one before??? Once I verify the bore size is the same as the CRF150F a Kehin will be replacing this one.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20018.jpg

Next up under the seat I found the CDI mount to be falling apart. Rubber apparently wasn't the highest quality around, so it needs to be replaced.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20004.jpg

From the other side of the bike we can see the air filter. Not at all what i expected, I expected an airbox of sorts. Filter looks a bit old and nasty so that will get replaced as well.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20010.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20015.jpg

Tucked away behind the nice fork guards, I found that my fork seals are leaking. Guess this will teach me to check that out before buying. The left fork is really seeping and the right one is slowly starting to seep as evidence by the gunk collected by the fork oil. Seals will need to be replaced. Before anyone suggests that this is just dirt collected while running off road, this bike has never been ridden off road. Only around the neighborhood for a few minutes to run the oil up to temp.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20020.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20021.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20026.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20029.jpg

Further inspection revealed that I may have a bit of a leak at a bolt on top of the cam cover. I think this might be a cam chain tensioner but am not sure as I haven't been able to find a parts diagram yet.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20030.jpg

The only other thing of interest to me was a rather dirty spark plug, for a bike that is new, or supposed to be new with only a few minutes of running the engine. Perhaps this is related to the carb leaking.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20035.jpg

So all in all nothing but the fork seals really surprises me. I expected to have some things here and there that needed attention. That's really part of the experience with buying bikes. For those of you who think this is something that only happens with Chinese bikes, think again. All of the above, except the fork seals, I've found on Japanese bikes in the past.

Luckily for me I bought the bike from a local (well semi local 1.5hrs away) dealer. I gave him a call today and he was very apologetic for my difficulties and told me to bring it in and he'll take care of everything.

More to come...

Looks like this promises to be an interesting prep job!

The mystery screw in the picture below could also be an extra oil-line feed or a tachometer sending unit receptacle.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20030.jpg

Looking at the pics, I'm not totally clear where the ohc would be on the head and where the chain would travel. Is it a pusher?

CC

Pusher? As in push rod? Perhaps. I know very little about the motor and haven't opened anything. Apparently the dealer hasn't ever opened one either in the 4 yrs they've been selling them so he didn't know either.

Another positive note. I found a source in Canada for FastAce suspension parts, including a variety of shock springs. That will make the suspension build much much easier.

It looks like a pushrod engine head but I can't be totally sure. Are you planning to replace to rebuild the suspension?

CC

The suspension is a pleasant surprise with this bike. It's a copy of sorts of the Works Performance equivalent. Fully adjustable. I haven't opened them up yet to see what's exactly going on inside, and I haven't been able to make contact with the manufacturer, but I have located a US based importer. Waiting to hear back from them. I did find a site that sells heavier shock springs though.

I will likely rebuild the suspension with heavier fork/shock springs and work on it from there. I think it will be quite capable of handling my needs once the springs are upgraded and it's setup properly.

No pics of progress today, but the bike is on the way back to the dealer to get the new fork seals in and the remaining issues corrected. Hopefully I'll have the bike back by Saturday or Monday at the latest.

Hmm getting in contact with FastAce is proving more difficult than I thought it would. I spoke with the contact on the US site, who no longer works for FastAce, friendly enough guy but wasn't aware of the models of forks, shock I have. He referred me to their Chinese site www.fastace.com. There are a couple of email addresses on that site. Both of which I attempted to email and got the emails kicked back. Calling them will cost me my first born, particularly since I don't have a land line anymore, only a cell phone. Then comes the question of if I'll get someone who speaks English.

Any members around who are local to either "#39-8, Linhai Road, Guoxinli, Qingshui Town, Taichung, Hsien,TAIWAN" or "Gaosha 2nd Industrial Park, Tongxin W. Rd, Dongsheng Town, Zhongshang City, Guangdong" who could help me get in touch with a factory rep???

Scratch that. I just got an email from a factory rep. :)

It is a CG push rod engine from the Valve cover.That screw IS a oil port of the top off the valve train.

I had my cg apart recently to do a valve adjustment and seen that's all it is.Change the gasket and your good to go.Possible gasket solution could be a brass brake line washer or even a bit of rvt on the existing gasket, just be sure to degrease the surface.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kens

It is a CG push rod engine from the Valve cover.That screw IS a oil port of the top off the valve train.

I had my cg apart recently to do a valve adjustment and seen that's all it is.Change the gasket and your good to go.Possible gasket solution could be a brass brake line washer or even a bit of rvt on the existing gasket, just be sure to degrease the surface.

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Thanks Kens! What do you mean by CG? I agree I was thinking a new brass crush washer, like you mentioned, to seal it up tight.

A new brass crush washer will solve the problem if there's no strange issue with the valve cover casting. No worries about taking the screw out and it should be a very simple fix. Hight-temp RTV would be a good and cheap solution since you shouldn't need to mess with that screw much, if at all.

Unless you add an external oil cooler that is. Hmmm... :mwink:

CC

CG ( push rod ) and CB ( over head cam) are the 2 most common "honda" copy engines used.
it's easy to tell the differance, The CG push rod has a one peice valve cover ( like yours) and the CB overhead cam looks like a XR engine but also has 2 "cap" looking plugs to access the tappet adjustment.

There is a lot more info out there fro CB engines, ,the CB seems to be a bit harder to find specs for. I think it is because the CB is copyed from engine that orginaly was only made in 125ccc config ( someone correct me if I am wrong there :mwink:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrazyCarl

A new brass crush washer will solve the problem if there's no strange issue with the valve cover casting. No worries about taking the screw out and it should be a very simple fix. Hight-temp RTV would be a good and cheap solution since you shouldn't need to mess with that screw much, if at all.

Unless you add an external oil cooler that is. Hmmm... :mwink:

CC

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Whats your thoughts on aux oil coolers on 200 -250cc bike carl ?

Well I'm not an oil cooler expert but I do know cooler oil is better than boiling oil! :lol8:

There's a lot of things involved in adding an oil cooler. The frame has to be ready to accept a cooler..as to the clearances like tank, plastics, wheel and header.

Then you'd have to be sure the oil pump can handle the extra volume. Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but a higher volume of oil and passages would create a lower systemic pressure. :confused1:

You could always tap in somewhere with an oil pressure indicator and make sure the oil pressure doesn't change much. At the same time, you could run an oil temp gauge to find out how much cooler your engine is running.

For racing I think this would all be extremely valuable info but the cost/complexity may not be worth it (probably some added weight as well). Some additional input from more experienced members in this field would be really helpful.

CC

ACDNate,
You have an interesting build going on. I remember you from ADVrider where you reported on your purchase of this bike.
BTW, in case you don't know, another site that might help you is http://planetminis.com/ .
Good luck and I will follow your build here.
Another BTW, I ordered the BMW GS mini clone that was mentioned on your ADVrider thread to bust some BMW chops.:lol8: I'll report on it here on this site once I get it.

Adding an oil cooler wouldn't be a huge undertaking really. I've added oil coolers on older bikes using oil filter adapters that gave an outlet and inlet. As long as you add additional oil to fill the increased volume of the cooler itself, pressure wouldn't be an issue. There would be a slight loss of pressure but typically less than 1-2 psi tops.

In a small displacement engine I can't imagine you would really need one unless you were doing some kind of endurance racing. It wouldn't hurt but probably wouldn't be necessary.

Thanks, Kens I wasn't familiar with those abriviations.

Barnone, you're gonna have the BMW loyalist in a tirade when you post pics of that thing! :)

Also of interest I got a call this morning at 830am from the dealer. All the repairs are done and the bike is ready to pick up. I was rather shocked since I just dropped it off Weds. Not too many dealers will get a job done that fast. Going to pick it up tomorrow am and will be putting the bike in the dirt sunday :)

So I went and picked up the bike yesterday. Took it out this morning for some fun in the dirt. Boy it's been a long long time since I've been in the dirt. It rained a good bit yesterday so the dirt was soft and tricky. Somehow I managed not to kill myself. Did get me and the bike pretty muddy along the way. Didn't take any pics but my buddy did do some video with his Iphone. Video montage to follow

Everything worked as expected for the most part. The carb will need some work though. The bike did not want to catch an idle off of choke. Ran and idled fine at the first notch of choke. I'm thinking I need to bump the jetting up a bit. Any input?

If its a problem at idle, changing jets might not do much for you depending on the type of carb you have. What does the carb look like?

You can always try to back out the Air/Fuel mixture screw a bit. It may be set real lean at assembly.... that's been known to happen. Also, did you adjust your idle speed?

Fork seals okay so far?

CC

The carb is a knock off of a Keihin Round slide carb common on dirt bikes.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/S0...Down%20018.jpg

I'm much more familiar with Mikuni CV carbs. So to richen the idle mixture screw backs out, same as CV's?

Forks did well, with no signs of any weaping. Definitely need to get the heavier forks for a guy my size. Had a buddy who weighs in around 170lbs and he found the forks to be pretty well setup for his weight. He too commented on the rear shock being too soft.

Oh yeah, I've had a bunch of those carbs. In China I found a carb which basically dropped right in to my Honda clone 150 and it kicked ass. Wish I could remember the number. It had a slightly larger diameter slide tube and an accelerator pump. More power on both low and top end... especially top end. Not sure if I have any pics of it either. Hmmmm...

Anyway, yes, with those carbs screwing them out will richen the circut...they're quite simple designs. Might want to check current position against seated first and all that jazz.

CC

I've got to pull it out and get some bore measurements, but I believe I'll be going to a Keihin in short order, just don't have a lot of faith in knock off carbs.