just ordered theregal raptor DAYTONA 350

hey guys do you think this supplier beijingriders reliable, they have ask me for 10000 rmb deposit, will visit them this tuesday.

heres the quote:

Hi Michael,

As we have mentioned before, the bike will only be in stock from the 15th to 20th of this month. As for the Jing A licence plates, it will take one month at most to get it done.

Regarding the front wheel, it is possible to change it to a thicker one, but we don't provide this service, we don't sell tires. If you wish, we can help you to find a supplier, but we recommend you not to change it. Our warranty doesn't cover the modifications that you do to your bike in any way.

We have different types (quality) of leather side bags. Prices go from 200RMB to 1000RMB. We will upgrade the products in our website and we will let you know so you can see the details of the bags that you choose.

Quote:

-DD350E-6C / Daytona - 25,800RMB

-Jing A licence plates - 14,500RMB (only the licence plates cost 13,000RMB without the taxes, and 1-year insurance).

-Cover - 150RMB

-Leather side bags - 200RMB to 1000RMB

-Delivery - 100RMB (within 4th Ring Road)

Regarding the down payment, it will be of 10,000RMB. As you give us your information, we will give you ours with the copy of our passport and residency permit. Also, once the bike has arrived, we will contact you so you can come check the bike. We will also give you a receipt for the 10,000RMB deposit signed by you and us.


the first email:

Hi Michael,

In 350cc we only can provide you the DAYTONA 350cc. Mainland the Spyder 350cc, is not on sale.

Regal Raptor list of products we can provide you;
-DD350E-6C / Daytona - 25,800.00Rmb
-DD250E-9A
-DD250G-2N
-DD150E-2F
-DD125G-3

Jing A - 13000RMB
Jing B - 1800RMB


If a costumer makes a purchase bigger than 15000 Rmb, our policy is;

-The costumer should provide us his information as; Passport copy, Residence permit, Visa.

-Our way of payment is, once you received the product, you pay by cash. So as a company we have to verify that the customer is 100% sure of his purchase.

For more information please visit us on;


if any you guys deal with this company? any suggestions?

LOOKING FORWARD TO RIDING WITH YOU GUYS and gals if have !!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael - I can save you a little bit of money (enough for you to buy me a coffee!), and direct you to a dealer that has at least one in stock.

Qili motors is a large dealer and has a healthy stock of Regal Raptors sitting on its floor, and dozens of crated bikes out front and in back. Here's a white DD350 - 6C I saw yesterday ...

Attachment 3646

Nice bike & my sweety really liked it! (quite important in my household). I've always found those RR's quite interesting!

Quoted price, all in & out the door with an "A" plate, is 39,600 (slight room for negotiations), and their goodies / accessories are usually reasonably priced.

Here's how to find Qili ...

Attachment 3647

I'd be happy to deliver the bike to you! :icon10:

GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

but i dont see the address..... its too blur... can give me their contact number & address or any website....

anything i save on this will be beers from me but any over beijing riders quote will be beers from you.. lol


(just kidding)



remember dont drink when we drive!

They don't have a website, but the contact number is: 010 8796 7395

If you PM me with your email address, I will try to send you a better map.

Cheers
Richard

The bike has arrived! will check it out tomorrow morming....... now waiting for the JING -A plate. hope it only gets 1 week!.... its my first 320cc bike, what do i need to check before i test drive the machine????? it doesnt come with a box i wonder...... i have ask for the box as maybe when i leave china will bring it with me....

The Regal-Raptor Daytona is a beautiful bike. :clap:

I know a guy who has owned one for about a month and he's very happy with his. :thumbsup:

Congratulations. :goodtime:

I'd just check the tires, brakes and indicators.

Send pics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Michael - I can save you a little bit of money (enough for you to buy me a coffee!), and direct you to a dealer that has at least one in stock.
Qili motors is a large dealer and has a healthy stock of Regal Raptors sitting on its floor, and dozens of crated bikes out front and in back. Here's a white DD350 - 6C I saw yesterday ...
Nice bike & my sweety really liked it! (quite important in my household). I've always found those RR's quite interesting!
Quoted price, all in & out the door with an "A" plate, is 39,600 (slight room for negotiations), and their goodies / accessories are usually reasonably priced.
Here's how to find Qili ...
I'd be happy to deliver the bike to you! :icon10:

---

Is that a Goldwing in the background? Does the dealer have some/any legally plated/imported/documented bikes? Just asking... ;)
BD

heres the pics

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5025/...b3e0ff16_z.jpg" width="640" height="429" alt="rrdd1-forjpeg"></a>

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5187/...9645466e_z.jpg" width="640" height="429" alt="rrdd2-forjpeg"></a>

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/...73895d7e_z.jpg" width="640" height="429" alt="rrdd3-forjpeg"></a>

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5302/...b876e1b9_z.jpg" width="640" height="429" alt="rrdd4-forjpeg"></a>

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5064/...14a6eccb_z.jpg" width="640" height="429" alt="rrdd5-forjpeg"></a>

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5302/...f8fe2921_z.jpg" width="429" height="640" alt="rrdd6-forjpeg"></a>

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/...01ffd02f_z.jpg" width="429" height="640" alt="rrdd7-forjpeg"></a>

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5023/...c99acb60_z.jpg" width="429" height="640" alt="rrdd8-forjpeg"></a>

<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5226/...31caa04d_z.jpg" width="640" height="429" alt="rrdd9-forjpeg"></a>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artedesenyo

The bike has arrived! will check it out tomorrow morming....... now waiting for the JING -A plate. hope it only gets 1 week!.... its my first 320cc bike, what do i need to check before i test drive the machine????? it doesnt come with a box i wonder...... i have ask for the box as maybe when i leave china will bring it with me....

---

Congrats! That is a fine looking bike! Black is the way to go, IMHO.

The pics will be much better, however, with a mountainous background so let's hope the "A" plate paperwork gets sorted soon. We've been waiting a couple of weeks for our 125's A plate - it's a very busy time of the year for everyone.

If you have any concerns that the dealer might not do a proper set-up, I don't know what to say. When you're riding away for the first time, take is VERY slow and take it VERY easy. I don't care how much experience a rider has, every new bike operates differently and it will take time to learn how your particular bike behaves. Give it at least a few weeks and at least 1,000 kms before you push the bike to do anything. And change the oil/filter often! (sorry for the lecture - u can take the prof outta the classroom, but ...)

Lots of RR dealers will have boxes and crate frames that they'd happily give you if you time it correctly. By the way, I recently noticed that FLH in Beijing (Lido area) is now carrying a healthy stock of RRs, so it would also have boxes.

Very nice bike you've got there - again, congrats!

BTW, did you use Beijingriders? If so, what was your experience? Be good to know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bikerdoc

Is that a Goldwing in the background? Does the dealer have some/any legally plated/imported/documented bikes? Just asking... ;)
BD

---

Yup - asking 70K (too much for that example, IMHO). Wings are invading Beijing - they are everywhere this Spring. None are legal. But you might also notice the "moo-glide" tucked in the back - I still have one of those rare bikes back in the "old country". I was shocked to find an example in Beijing.

i am skeptic about the dealer promising the jing a plate to be available in may 18. still hoping but they still havent ask about my visa, passport, etc... but they say they are processing.. hhhmmm. hey richard, i dont have a rider buddy ,would like to ride with you once i get the plate. even the lone ranger has his kimosabe, hahahah. you can call me sabe.. hahaha - yes I use beijing riders, in the meantime they are good at promising, will definitely know after may 18. waiting sucks. its a pain seeing and using my scooter when the rr is in the storage.

I'm also skeptical about the Jing A plates. Not to spoil the party, as it sounds like an awesome purchase, but I rarely trust motorcycle dealers who say they can get such and such a license plate. Until I can actually see the plate on the bike and the paperwork to back it up, I'm leery of making purchases just relying on what some guy says. Unfortunately, nearly 10 years of living in China has made me distrust the "word" of a stranger or acquaintance, unless I know the guy. In other words, I distrust people I meet in China first, and then later trust them as they prove themselves to be trustworthy. This is more or less how the locals do it too.

A few questions that come to mind are: whose name are the Jing A plates going to be registered under, what documentation is required to get the plates, do you need a registered residence in Beijing, if so for how long, how do you prove your residence, and what about a motorcycle drivers license?

found this from other website posted by setha lee... not sure if it is updated....

DISCLAIMER: I am only sharing my experience here and in no way am I an expert in this area. what worked for me may not work for everyone. I am referencing some websites in this guide, but in no way do I endorse them or guarantee that they will be of use for any purpose. So please don't hold me responsible for you actions. This guide is only a reference. I am only trying to help.


I know a lot of people have asked about license plates and how to buy motorcycles in Beijing so I decided to write this article. I have gone through the process and I hope this basic guide will help answer your questions.
Foreigners can buy legal bikes and legally register them under their own names in Beijing fairly easily and the process takes only 1 day after you buy the bike. Foreigners can also get a motorcycle license fairly easily as well. It should take about 1 month or so depending on how quickly you can schedule your test with the DMV. let me go through this step by step.




1) Where to get your motorcycle license

To get your motorcycle license you need to take a motorcycle class. It is not really a class, but here is the whole process:

What you will need for the license application:

- valid passport (2 photocopies)
- valid resident visa valid for more than 90 days (2 photocopies)
- valid registration form of temporary residence (2 photocopies)
- 5 x 1-inch photo with white background
- health check (see below for where to go and get this)
- 1,560 RMB registration fee (if I remember correctly)
- Application form (they can fill it for you)
- Choose a Chinese name (it’s more convenient as most places use Chinese)



Step 1. Do a health check. This can be done at any hospital. There is a hospital right across the subway stop near Lao Shan training school. I did it there before going up the hill to the school. Go directly to the 体检中心 (ti jian zhong xin). They will look at you to make sure you are not missing a leg or an arm, ask to see your passport and one 1-inch photo, make you read a number or two to see if you are colorblind, give you a slip to pay 10RMB at the cashier. You go back, you pick up your health certificate and you on your way. I recommend you do it there because it is always pretty empty so you don't have to wait. Didn't try other hospitals so don't know if it is the same elsewhere.


Step 2. Go to Lao Shan training school (http://www.lsjx.cc/). They are on the west side of Beijing. copy this address 北京市石景山区老山西街15号 and paste in on map.baidu.com and you should know where it is. This is the only place a foreigner can go for motorcycle license. I recommend you take the subway line 1 there. When you get off the subway, just take a cab or ride the two-wheel or 3-wheel motorcycles waiting in front of the station. 5-6RMB one-way for two-wheel or 3-wheel. I suggest you ask the taxi or bike to wait for you or it may take you a while to find one to go down. The school is up the hills. Just give the office them the papers I listed above and they will help you fill the application form. You pay and they will call you in 2 days to schedule a time to go to the DMV and schedule a test.


Step 3. When they call you they will tell you to go to the DMV at a certain time. Just show up there at the arranged time. The place is right at the southwest corner of 十八里店南桥 （shibalidian nan qiao). Again, copy and paste on map.baidu.com to see location. This is the place where you take your driver's test and also where you will process the motorcycle plates (see below). Once you are there the people at Lao Shan will help you schedule the test and pay for it. You will need to come back at the designated time to take the computer test. After you pass the computer test (if you don't, arrange to take it again), give the papers back to Lao Shan so they can arrange a driving test for you. In the meanwhile, you can go to Lao Shan to practice the test course before the actual test. They won’t teach you how to ride a motorcycle, so find someone to teach you or read a book on riding a motorcycle. After you complete the test, you should get your license in about 1 week.
While you are at the DMV, buy the test booklet/traffic guide book. The English version cost 90RMB and contains all the possible test questions.


NOTE: it’s about the same procedure for a car driver’s license if you don’t already have a license from overseas. The classes for cars are more expensive and take longer but you can use Lao Shan training school. If you already have a license from overseas, then it is a lot easier, you just have to take the written test and you get your license a week later. Of course, you still need the documents as listed above.



1) Where to buy a motorcycle

There are several ways you can buy a motorcycle. You can look for shops that sell new or used motorcycles or you can buy them directly from the owner through websites such as http://bj.58.com/danche/ which list a lot of used bikes. It's best if you have a friend that understands Chinese go through the site with you. You can also see http://www.cj750.net for CJ750 bikes. I don't know them personally but they seem highly recommended by a lot of foreigners in Beijing. Whatever you buy, make sure they have all the proper paperwork and include a Jing A or Jing B plate. I will explain the plate type below.



Jing A plates can ride almost anywhere in Beijing except for within 2nd ring and certain restricted areas. Jing B can only ride outside 4th ring. You will see people riding with all types of plates or without plates at all, but they are illegal and risk getting their bike confiscated or being arrested. It goes without saying that Jing A plates are much more expensive than Jing B.
If you buy a new bike, make sure that the bike already comes with a Jing A plate and that the plate can be transferred (过户） to your name. Beijing technically no longer gives out new Jing A plates. So some people buy bikes from a dealer and the dealer says he will help apply for a Jing A plate, but it may never happen or take months because he himself needs to buy a plate from someone else first and transfer to you. Unless you buy from a BWM, Harley Davidson official dealers who all can get Jing A plates (but will cost you a leg and an arm, and they are still transferred from existing bikes), be careful when you buy a new bike.

Beijing does not make a difference for how big a bike is. As long as it is 50CC or above, then you need a license. It is the same license for all bikes. Same for license plates.



Now, if you buy a used bike from someone who already has a Jing A plate and all the proper paperwork, below is what you do to transfer it to your name:



Step 1. find the bike that you want to buy, make sure they have all the paperwork and can过户. The owner may have to have the bike inspected and have insurance before the bike can be transferred. I suggest you let the owner pay for all costs before transfer unless the bike is really cheap. Then a few hundred yuan won’t matter.



Step 2. go to 北京花乡旧车交易市场 which is a second hand auto market at the North West of 花乡桥 on the south 4th ring. Again copy the name to map.baidu.com to see the location. This is where you process the 过户 which is technically where the seller transfers the bike to your name. You will get an official invoice which says the bike was sold to you. After the bike is transferred to your name, pay the owner. He should give you all the paperwork required to process the license plate as described in step 3.



Step 3. with the invoice, all the other paperwork and the bike, go to the DMV at the location described early (十八里店南桥).



Step 4. Once you are at the DMV, you need to get the bike checked first. This is done in the office inside the parking lot at the right of the main gate. You tell them you need to 过户 to a foreigner (外国人）。 They will check the bike registration number, take a photo of the bike and ask you to take off the license plates. The cost is 20 RMB. For transfer to foreigners, the plate you currently have need to be changed to a new one. You can borrow tools (screwdrivers) from them with a deposit of 100RMB which is returned after you return the tools. Should take about 1 hour or less. After it is done, they will seal everything in an envelope and give it to you.



Step 5. Once you got your bike checked, you take the envelope and your old plates and head in the building in the Foreign Affairs Office. It is on the left side of the building. Have your paperwork checked there at the counter to make sure everything is in order. Once they have checked and the papers are OK, they will tell you to go to windows 18 to hand over your old plates. After you hand over your plates (they will NOT give you a receipt), go back and fill in the application form for plate transfer. If you don't know how to write Chinese, ask some of the staff in the main lobby to help you fill it. Then you go to the counter in the Foreign Affairs Office again and give them the requested paperwork. They will need to see your original passport (make 1 photocopy) and registration form of temporary residence (make 1 photocopy). Once you have handed in the application with all the required paperwork, they will process it immediately. Within 1 hour, they will call your name and give you the new plates (with screws) and the papers back with your name on it. I was told that Foreigners get black plates with white letters, but mine was yellow which is the normal color for locals.
Voila! you are officially a legal owner of a Jing A motorcycle. Happy riding.



A note on illegal bikes and license plates:
China has a lot of illegal motorcycles that are smuggled in, usually bigger transmission sports/street/touring (Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati, BMW). They are not registered and cannot get a legal plate. They will usually carry hebei plates or no plate at all. If you buy them, ride them outside of Beijing and don’t get caught or the bike may be confiscated. Beijing is not too strict on motorcycles or helmet rules, but don’t drink and drive. They are very strict on drunk driving.

Drive safe and hope to see more motorcycle friends on the road.

heres the latest info direct from beijing traffice management bureau
http://www.bjjtgl.gov.cn/publish/portal1/tab183/

Vehicle Driver’s License Procedures and RegulationsSection 3First time application for driver's licenseI. Application
1. Applicant who meets the requirements applies at Motor Vehicle Administration and receives notice of acceptance by submitting the following:

(1)<Driver's license application form>

(2) Original and photo copy of identification document

(3) Original Health examination certificate issued by hospital of county level and above. Applicants 61 years of age or above apply for driving license for small-size vehicle and people with bad left lower limb apply for small-size vehicle with auto transmission must submit health certificate issued by the hospitals appointed by municipal bureau of medical care.

(4) 8 1-inch color photos with white background

2. First time applicants may apply to drive the following types of vehicles: buses, large freight vehicles, small-size vehicles, small-size vehicles with auto transmission, low speed freight vehicles, three-wheel vehicles, three-wheel motorcycles, two-wheel motorcycles, light motorcycles, trolleys and tramcar

II. Training and testing

1. After the applicant gets notice of acceptance from the Motor Vehicle Administration, he/she should go to Sheng Hua driving school or Shou Feng Driver Training Center(both for motor vehicle only) or Lao Shan Driving School (for motorcycle drivers only) for training on road traffic safety laws and regulations and related knowledge (this training will later be referred to as 'Course 1'). For those applicants who have completed the required training, Motor Vehicle Administration will give the Course 1 test within 30 days from the date in which the applicant makes an appointment. Three days after passing the Course 1 test the applicant will receive the 'Driving Test Permit'.

2. 'Driving Test Permit' is valid for two years after issuance. While the permit is valid, the applicant should go to Sheng Hua driving school, Shou Feng driver training center or Lao Shan driving school (for motorcycle drivers only) to take driving training. For those applicants who have completed the required training, Motor Vehicle Administration will give the applicant a training-field driving test (later referred to as 'Course 2') and a road driving test (later referred to as 'Course 3').

3. Reserving an appointment for the tests

（1）10 days after receiving the 'Driving Test Permit', applicants for small-size vehicles, small-size vehicles with auto transmission, low speed freight vehicles, three-wheel vehicles, three-wheel motorcycles, two-wheel motorcycles, light motorcycles, trolleys and tramcar can make reservation for test of 'Course 2'.

（2） 20 days after receiving the 'Driving Test Permit', applicants for buses and large-size freight vehicles can make reservation for test of 'Course 2'.

（3） 20 days after receiving the 'Driving Test Permit', applicants for small-size vehicles, small-size vehicles with auto transmission, low speed freight vehicles, three-wheel vehicles, three-wheel motorcycles, two-wheel motorcycles, light motorcycles, trolleys and tramcar can make reservation for test of 'Course 3'.

(4) 30 days after receiving the 'Driving Test Permit', applicants for small-size vehicles, small-size vehicles with auto transmission can make reservation for test of 'Course 3'.

(5) 40 days after receiving the 'Driving Test Permit', applicants for large-size freight vehicle can make reservation for test of 'Course 3'.

(6) 60 days after receiving the 'Driving Test Permit', applicants for buses can make reservation for test of 'Course 3'.

4. The test sequence follows in the order of Course 1, Course 2 and Course 3, executed successively. After passing the preceding test, the applicant may participate in the test for the next course. Each test is taken one time, and may be re-taken one time. If the applicant fails the test twice, the current test of course is over, he/she has to re-apply for the test. But the tests for Course 2 and Course 3 must be reserved 20 days later.

5. An applicant who exhibits inappropriate or fraudulent behavior during the test process his/her ualification for the test will be nullified, and all previous results will be invalidated.

III. License issuance
After the applicant has passed test of course 2 and 3, the Motor Vehicle Administration will issue a driver's license within five business days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artedesenyo

i am skeptic about the dealer promising the jing a plate to be available in may 18. still hoping but they still havent ask about my visa, passport, etc... but they say they are processing..

---

May 18 seems a little far away, but I do know that the plate-agents that the dealers use are extremely busy at this time of year. I know of one dealer that sold >60 legal bikes last Sunday - and each one of those will be getting plates. Multiply that by the many, many dealers in Beijing ... etc etc. And it seems that most dealers use just a couple of different plate-agents.

We're still waiting for our YBR's "A" plate ... hopefully later this week.

By the way, you can actually ride your bike without a plate for 30 days (I think that is the "rule") so long as you carry a copy of the fapiao & a chopped letter from the dealer. That way, you can get gas, and also not have any problem with the police. You can ask beijingriders about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artedesenyo

hey richard, i dont have a rider buddy ,would like to ride with you once i get the plate. even the lone ranger has his kimosabe, hahahah. you can call me sabe.. hahaha - yes I use beijing riders, in the meantime they are good at promising, will definitely know after may 18. waiting sucks. its a pain seeing and using my scooter when the rr is in the storage.

---

Absolutely! You've got my email address. We can even pop around on scooters until your chick-magnet RR is ready. I always have a blast on my sweety's Suzuki 125 scooter. And those on this board who have ridden with me know that I am an old granny rider, so I will probably be the "sabe" to your lone ranger RR stallion! The point is to just have fun.

By the way, check out this interesting ride report out over on advrider ... and who says scooters are for sissies?

Riding around China on a scooter

:scooter:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve_R

I'm also skeptical about the Jing A plates. Not to spoil the party, as it sounds like an awesome purchase, but I rarely trust motorcycle dealers who say they can get such and such a license plate. Until I can actually see the plate on the bike and the paperwork to back it up, I'm leery of making purchases just relying on what some guy says. Unfortunately, nearly 10 years of living in China has made me distrust the "word" of a stranger or acquaintance, unless I know the guy. In other words, I distrust people I meet in China first, and then later trust them as they prove themselves to be trustworthy. This is more or less how the locals do it too.

---

Hi Steve - I share your concern. But I think that if one uses an established, high-volume, licensed dealer, there are minimal concerns (except that some dealers try to extract an unreasonable profit on the plates). At present, the going price for an "A" plate is around 12 - 13K (but I've heard that this is moving up quickly).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve_R

A few questions that come to mind are: whose name are the Jing A plates going to be registered under, what documentation is required to get the plates, do you need a registered residence in Beijing, if so for how long, how do you prove your residence, and what about a motorcycle drivers license?

---

You need to have a minimum 6 month visa (any type) in your passport and the Temporary Residence Registration (that little piece of paper from the local police station). Your residence has to be within the 4th ring road to qualify for an "A" plate, or outside for a "B" plate. If you live inside the 4th but want a "B" plate, the dealer can make arrangements by registering the bike in a company's name. You do not need a driving license, of any type, to register the bike in your name. You need a motorcycle license to ride it, though.

Many of the riders I know have Chinese girlfriends/wives - handy for many things, including vehicle registration. :lol8:

This is extremely useful information, here, thanks a ton!

I only wonder if a similar process can be used for Shanghai where I reside. For example, the ideal situation would be to apply for 'HU C' plates which are used outside the ring road, but I still want to have a downtown residence.

Supposedly this method could work if there are reputable and trustworthy high-volume dealers in the suburbs of Shanghai who could apply for such a HU C plate if I provided proof of a residence in Shanghai and proper visas --- even if it's downtown.

If this method doesn't work, I'd move to the suburbs and give it a whirl, but I'd definitely want to scout out dealers in the suburbs and see what's up first.

It's interesting that the JING A plates only cost 12-13000 RMB or so, because the HU A plates in Shanghai cost almost 50,000 RMB. When you're talking prices that high, the suburban option begins to look mighty attractive.

Then again, this whole thing assumes that Beijing and Shanghai would have similar rules for motorbikes, and I doubt that is the case -- so maybe it's comparing apples to oranges and not worth pursuing. To my knowledge, the Shanghai government highly discourages bikes and has these aggressive crackdowns (for example now you can't get fuel without a plate downtown). It appears that the Beijing government is more favorable towards bikes in a relative sense based on all these posts.

One of the concerns I have about the Shanghai situation is the possibility of a total ban on motorcycles in the coming few years, like what eventually happened with Guangzhou. If a total ban is indeed a possibility, then it would be a waste of money to get a new bike and legal plate right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve_R

It's interesting that the JING A plates only cost 12-13000 RMB or so, because the HU A plates in Shanghai cost almost 50,000 RMB. When you're talking prices that high, the suburban option begins to look mighty attractive.

Then again, this whole thing assumes that Beijing and Shanghai would have similar rules for motorbikes, and I doubt that is the case -- so maybe it's comparing apples to oranges and not worth pursuing. To my knowledge, the Shanghai government highly discourages bikes and has these aggressive crackdowns (for example now you can't get fuel without a plate downtown). It appears that the Beijing government is more favorable towards bikes in a relative sense based on all these posts.

---

Dear Steve,

To be honest, I think that Shanghai's approach, once you get over the sticker shock, is the most intelligent approach to seriously limiting all vehicle volumes without banning bikes outright. I do not think that Shanghai will ban bikes, but they are getting very serious about weeding out unregistered bikes and unlicensed riders -- which probably comprise about 95% of all bikes on the roads. Having pulled the trigger on the 沪A plate, I'm happy seeing the authorities cleanse the streets of millions of bikes that have no lights or mirrors, are held together with duct tape and baling wire, and are driven by people with absolutely no sense of responsibility for the lives of others.

As for the price, as I've noted again and again, that 48k RMB that you have to fork over for the 沪A plate is not pissed down the drain; rather, it's a pretty decent and highly liquid investment. One MCM member who recently sold a bike had bought his 沪A plate for 42k less than a year ago, and transfered it to a buyer for 48k last month, which is a 14% return on investment. Think of it as a certificate of deposit, and if the high price of admission keeps Shanghai traffic relatively congestion free, I'm grateful. Try riding or driving in Beijing and you'll understand how fortunate we are.

I'd suggest you do what Dewsnap has done and go for the suburban 沪C plate. I see plenty of 沪C bikes here in downtown, and they rarely get popped. When they do get popped, if the plate and your drivers license are legal the worst possible outcome is a 200 rmb fine and a point against your license and you ride home to ride another day. (With a fake plate, or no plate, your bike will be confiscated and you might lose your license and even put your residence permit at risk.) And the 沪C plate is also just as liquid and transferable as the 沪A plate. Your wallet is about US$1200 lighter for the 沪C plate, but you are legal everywhere but downtown, can make occasional forays downtown with only limited financial exposure, are free to head out of town at your leisure -- and can recover the $1200 plate charge if and when you sell the bike.

Let us know how you get on.

cheers

Hi Euphonius, good information here! Yes, that C plate sounds like the best approach and is the main goal I'm working on for next year. Will update here. One thing I'm not entirely sure about is whether the new plates are indeed being issued in Shanghai or not. I've heard mixed reports, some say the city stopped issuing new plates after 2006, others say you can still register. When you got your bike registered, what year was it, and was it in your own name?

Dear Steve,

There are no new motorcycle plates being issued in Shanghai -- neither 沪A nor 沪C. There is now ONLY a secondary market. That means for you to have a plate, another motorcyclist has to sell his. So the supply is extremely limited, which partly explains the high price. Worse yet, if a motorcyclist decides to buy a car, he can legally transfer his motorcycle plate to a car, thereby reducing the pool of available plates by one. It does not work in the other direction; you cannot transfer a car plate to a bike. Unless the authorities resume issuing new motorcycle plates, the pool will continue to shrink. It's not a great outlook, but it's better than a ban.

Now you'd think that this would drive the price of motorcycle plates even higher on the secondary market, but for now that has not happened. What does happen is that the price of a motorcycle plate in the secondary market closely tracks the price of NEW car plates issued at auction in the primary market. Because there is intense demand for car plates, but Shanghai authorities -- quite wisely in my opinion -- don't want to flood the market, the monthly auction price keeps rising, and that's why the motorcycle plate price keeps rising. That's what makes a motorcycle plate both a very expensive proposition, yet also a decent financial investment.

Until such time as the policy changes. TIC.

For the record, I purchased my bike new in 2010, and purchased my plate through the secondary market at the going price, which was about 42k. The bike came from the factory in Chongqing, and was not plated in advance. Two entirely separate transactions. There is no Jialing dealer in Shanghai, and I took care of procuring the plates myself, legally, through the standard process. I did have some help with that process -- a handler who lurks at the vehicle management bureau and knows all the ins and outs as well as all the desk jockeys there -- but his services were reasonably priced, and cut the time involved down to hours rather than days or weeks.

cheers

OK glad it worked out for you. Well this confirms what I had been suspecting about the local plate issuing situation. It sounds like it wasn't such a difficult process for you to purchase the plates on the secondary market and then have them transfered to your name. What I'd also be interested in is the re-selling process if and when you decided you wanted to sell the bike off and/or transfer the plate to a car.

I can't help but recall an article in the Shanghai Daily around 2006 when the city first stopped issuing new plates for motorcycles. At that time, they wanted people to mainly give up the gas scooters, as there wasn't much of a disctinction between motorcycle and scooter plates. During that article, they said the validity of the plates was 8 years, and the idea was that the plates would gradually expire and then people would either give up the bikes or trade them in for the almighty car. In theory, all the scooter and bike plates (if they are the same thing) should be out of circulation by the end of 2013 and the city could institute a full-scale ban by following similar steps to what Guangzhou did.

Since I've just realized now that the market for plates is secondary only, I would be hesistant to make such an investment unless I knew that the plates could keep running indefinitely past 2013, say, as long as I paid the yearly insurance fees and had the bike checked for emissions requirements.

What's your take on all this? If the plates don't expire then I totally agree it's a worthwhile liquid investment despite the high initial price

There's also the possibility that Shanghai won't follow Guangzhou's lead and they won't ban bikes like Guangzhou did. Beijing has a good system already in place for the bike plates, and new plates are definitely being registered there. Since Shanghai tends to be innovative and doesn't follow other cities, my overall guess is they would run a lottery system for bike plates like they do for the car plates. The prices would be high of course, maybe not as high as an actual car plate, but it would work as long as people were willing to pay the investment. Also, if there were a way to get newly registered plates, then the city could be more justified in the crackdown against unregistered bikes.

My own take on things is that I agree with the the long-running crackdown on unregistered scooters driven by morons around here, but I only fear it's the lead-up to a total ban in the near future unless things become clearer on the next steps that the city may want to do with the bikes.

As it stands now, I'm more inclined to wait until 2013 or 2014 and see what happens, and hope that the government would take a more positive attitude towards the current bike situation, to see if perhaps it would be more favorable towards bikes in the future.

just a question, do you also have to pay yearly 'registration' fees/state or equivalent mandatory insurance, duties, taxes etc. in China?
Mine would be somewhere between $350 and $400 a year if I say bike is worth $1000 only and if I calculated correctly (it depends on area you live in), plus the same for personal Insurances.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve_R

There's also the possibility that Shanghai won't follow Guangzhou's lead and they won't ban bikes like Guangzhou did. Beijing has a good system already in place for the bike plates, and new plates are definitely being registered there. Since Shanghai tends to be innovative and doesn't follow other cities, my overall guess is they would run a lottery system for bike plates like they do for the car plates. The prices would be high of course, maybe not as high as an actual car plate, but it would work as long as people were willing to pay the investment. Also, if there were a way to get newly registered plates, then the city could be more justified in the crackdown against unregistered bikes.

My own take on things is that I agree with the the long-running crackdown on unregistered scooters driven by morons around here, but I only fear it's the lead-up to a total ban in the near future unless things become clearer on the next steps that the city may want to do with the bikes.

As it stands now, I'm more inclined to wait until 2013 or 2014 and see what happens, and hope that the government would take a more positive attitude towards the current bike situation, to see if perhaps it would be more favorable towards bikes in the future.

---

Steve,

There's no need to wait till 2013 to find out what Shanghai is doing. The vehicle management bureau is fully involved in the transfer of these existing plates in circulation, and they have no end-of-use date. It's actually only the right to have a plate that is in limited supply and allowed to change hands, not the plates themselves. I purchased my plate rights from a seller, and went to the vehicle management bureau to register the transfer of the plate rights' ownership. I then spun the electronic dial by which the bureau's computer spits out available plate numbers, and I chose one to my liking. It is impossible that this was the same number as the one used by the person who sold the rights to me. I then took the printout and went to the plate issuance window, where my new plates were pulled from the shelves and handed over to me.

My motorcycle registration is for 11 years, which seems to be the official permitted life for a motorcycle in China. It says right on my registration book that my registration faces mandatory expiration on 11 June 2021, exactly 11 years from the date of registration. Why 11 not 10 or 12 or 20, I do not know. But there is no mystery about the duration of my registration. This does bring to mind a question: Does the plate registration expire on the same date, or is that only the last day that my BIKE can be registered? My assumption is the latter, but if it's the former, then the 40k-plus I paid has a half-life and will lose value as the years tick away. In Chinese, the expiration line reads: 强制报废期止, meaning roughly "mandatory scrapping deadline". Surely that applies to the bike, not the registration!

Incidentally, this same question applies to buyers of real estate in China. My apartment has a 70- or 90-year expiration on the land-use rights, and I don't think anyone knows as of now whether this will be rolled over for the future owners, or taken back by the state. I'll be long gone by then, and perhaps the current state will be gone too, so I don't much care. But 11 years I do care about!

You might go back and re-read my post on Getting Legal in Shanghai, since it covers a lot of this stuff in detail.

Bottom line: Shanghai and Beijing seem to be moving toward accommodating motorcycles among the permitted categories of vehicles, as they have welcomed major retail operations by Harley-Davidson (directly owned), BMW Motorrad (via local agents) and Ducati (also via local agents) and have moved to establish clear procedures for registration, licensing and expiration of user rights. It's hard to imagine them simply banning bikes altogether, and it's perhaps even conceivable that, under World Trade Organization fair play rules, cities with bans will be obliged to fall into compliance.

One dissent: I don't agree with your assessment that Beijing has put a "good system" in place; by maintaining lower prices but subjecting the public to a limited auction, they have created a Frankenstein of a system that is fair to no one and already is breeding new forms of corruption (i.e., retirees paid to apply for plates, then handing them over to illegal syndicates for black market transfers). Shanghai's system does penalize the poor, but simply lets the market set the price and hence is technically fairer and not as susceptible to yellow cows, scalpers and other bottom feeders. If the city really is taking enforcement seriously, even the fake plates can be easily curbed.

Again, full disclosure: I'm paid into the current plating system and hence have an interest in its continuation and success.

We really should be discussing this over beers, or coffee during a nice ride in this lovely spring weather!

cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve_R

Beijing has a good system already in place for the bike plates, and new plates are definitely being registered there.

---

I can't really speak to how Shanghai (SH) does it, but I suspect it is very similar to Beijing (BJ), albeit the secondary market price is much higher in SH than in BJ.

Here's how it works in BJ (also a secondary market):

1) There are limited number of "A" plates in existence in Beijing. Say, for argument's sake, the number is 100. No new plates will be issued - the maximum number of plates on the road can only reach the 100.
2) If you buy a new bike that can be registered with an "A" plate, you must find an existing bike with an "A" plate, destroy that bike (# of bikes temporarily down to 99), and transfer the plate to the new bike (# of bikes back up to 100).
3) Technically, the new bike is sold to the owner of the old bike with the A plate. The new bike will actually be registered into that person's name (step 5, below).
4) The "owner" then has the old bike destroyed at the special police compound that handles such things and gives the "owner" a piece of paper saying the bike is destroyed and a new plate can be issued.
5) Using this new piece of paper, the new bike's fapiao (issued in your name), the temporary "owner" gets insurance in his/her name, and has the bike registered in his/her name, and a new plate issued.
6) Once the paperwork is in order (new plate, new books), the bike is then transferred again, into the "real owner's name" (i.e., you).
7) The "new" plates are valid for 11 years on a new bike. At the end of 11 years, the bike MUST be destroyed (there is currently NO way around that - none, zilch, zero). When you destroy a bike and transfer the plates over to a new bike, the 11 years starts ticking again. You can destroy a legal bike at any time (i.e., you don't have to wait the 11 years).
8) We haven't had any of the legal Harleys / BMWs / etc come up to the 11 year mark, and nobody really knows what will happen with them at that point. These expensive machines aren't the 500 rmb residual value 50cc, 100cc & 125cc bikes that were prominent when the "policy" was set.

I have registered several bikes, and always used an agent (agents are very inexpensive - and make their money because they do several bikes at a time, at each step).

I once followed an agent around to see how it was done, and realized that the 200 rmb service fee was money well spent. As Euphonius notes, these agents know their job, understand the convoluted bureaucracy, and know the people behind the counters.

At present, an A plate in Beijing runs 12K to 20K (depending on dealer markup). I just did one last week for 12.5K. Last September, it was 8K. Supply is fixed, but demand is increasing tremendously because of the car plate lottery happening in BJ (people are considering bikes as an alternative in-city transportation).

Unlike SH, we in BJ do not have the ability to exchange bike plates for car plates - cars & bikes are two completely separate systems in BJ.

Bike ban in BJ? Well, anything is possible ... but I think it is very unlikely for several reasons. Many people who ride legal Harleys & BMWs in BJ are top government people, including top police officials. Both Harley & BMW have very powerful connections. And the number of legal Harleys hitting the roads in BJ would make your head spin. A new Harley is the new fashion statement in Beijing.

Rumors/gossip/misinformation abounds in the Beijing's expat community about motorcycling, but hopefully the above gives you a slight understanding of how it works in Beijing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

just a question, do you also have to pay yearly 'registration' fees/state or equivalent mandatory insurance, duties, taxes etc. in China?
Mine would be somewhere between $350 and $400 a year if I say bike is worth $1000 only and if I calculated correctly (it depends on area you live in), plus the same for personal Insurances.

---

Dear Jape,

Apparently it does not work this way, with annual registration fees. As far as I can tell, I only have to present my bike for a two-year inspection before June 2012. There may be some user fees assessed at that time, but my expectation is that they'll only collect inspection fees. I do have to re-up my insurance annually.

Apart from my expensive purchase of the plate rights from the seller in the secondary market, there were several thousand RMB in various fees assessed by the vehicle management bureau at the time of registration last year. I'm thinking these were a once-off, barring some change of policy. Incidentally, real estate purchases here are the same: You pay one tax upon transfer, and there is no annual property tax -- at least not yet. There is a drumbeat that Shanghai will be among several cities implementing some trial form of annual property tax starting this year, but I'm hearing this may be limited to second homes and properties above a certain threshold value.

cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Incidentally, this same question applies to buyers of real estate in China. My apartment has a 70- or 90-year expiration on the land-use rights, and I don't think anyone knows as of now whether this will be rolled over for the future owners, or taken back by the state.

---

I'm sorry for going way off topic, but I read this and it sparked a question that's been sitting in the back of my mind for years. When they section off X-square meters of land and put up an apartment building, nobody actually owns "the land". What you do own is a concrete cubicle with a couple hundred other people stacked beside, under, and on top of you. Since no building in China will stand for more than 25-30 years, what happens 25 years from now when they condemn your apartment building and knock it down? Does anyone really believe or care about the 70 year ownership clause when there is no possible way that any apartment built in the last 20 years could possibly be standing 70 years down the road?

:confused1:

I'm terrified of the idea if buying property here, but the Shanghai license plate deal seems to make perfect sense.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jape

just a question, do you also have to pay yearly 'registration' fees/state or equivalent mandatory insurance, duties, taxes etc. in China?
Mine would be somewhere between $350 and $400 a year if I say bike is worth $1000 only and if I calculated correctly (it depends on area you live in), plus the same for personal Insurances.

---

Hi Jape - the policies keep changing. One used to pay a Road Tax, but it has been done away with and folded into other fees. Very, very roughly, the annual costs for plates, insurance, etc, probably averages out to no more than a few hundred rmb per year. It goes up/down/around each year, and policies change, etc. But it is a small charge.

After you've paid the entrance fee to "the club" (getting the legal plate), the annual dues are small.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Does anyone really believe or care about the 70 year ownership clause when there is no possible way that any apartment built in the last 20 years could possibly be standing 70 years down the road?

---

Have faith, my friend, have faith! :lol8:

Seriously, you are correct about building standards, etc. My sweety & her family are into real estate, big time, and they are of a very typical Chinese mentality ... "don't worry, there will be a new policy when that starts to happen."

Me, on the otherhand ... I am a western-educated finance guy ... I want to see iron-clad contracts & ownership. TIC - doesn't work that way.

One thing I've learned is ... give sweety my bank account numbers with unbridled access, never question her logic, and sit back and enjoy their bizarre & magical ability to pick investments. If we'd followed my western due diligence, we'd be living in a cardboard box under a bridge. Instead, sweety just sold a house down in Guangzhou (yup, your neighbourhood) for a completely unrealistic sum ... the very house I told her back in 2003 that we would be crazy to buy. I keep my mouth shut now.

Have faith - ask Mrs. ChinaV! :lol8:

Thanks both of you for this reliable information with details and experience --- this is exactly the kind of thing I need to be reading, and it's very hard to find this information from other sources. So it looks like I've been wasting my time reading the expat boards (i.e. Shanghai expat) or the newspapers for bike registration, as they are riddled with inconsistencies and speculation. The stuff here is far more accurate, and it explains the details that can't be answered satisfactorily from the expat community or even the locals who ride motorbikes in general.

Alright I owe you two a beer for this.

There was a funny story once, can't recall exactly, about someone who walked into a local traffic police office and asked a question about bike registration. Two cops then got into an argument with each other because each cop first told the foreigner a contradicting piece of information.

Having read this info here, it doesn't appear that a ban is likely in Shanghai if the government is still allowing the plates to be reprocessed with an 11 year period to 'start ticking' away again by the transfer of secondary plates to a new bike.

Actually this is starting to make a ton of sense, in that it's all the older gas scooters would be destroyed by the end of 2013. In other words, they want the bikes themselves off the road, and not necessarily the registrations attached to the bikes. Then, with the newer bikes being purchased and registered, the city wouldn't have as much to worry about pollution, safety, etc.. as the newer bike models meet higher standards.

So with that in mind, what happens if the former owners just decide to destroy the bikes and not bother selling off their registration or transfering to a car? If there are multiple bikes destroyed in this way, does this increase the quota of available license plates that could be potentially re-transfered to a brand new bike?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve_R

....Actually this is starting to make a ton of sense, in that it's all the older gas scooters would be destroyed by the end of 2013. In other words, they want the bikes themselves off the road, and not necessarily the registrations attached to the bikes. Then, with the newer bikes being purchased and registered, the city wouldn't have as much to worry about pollution, safety, etc.. as the newer bike models meet higher standards.

So with that in mind, what happens if the former owners just decide to destroy the bikes and not bother selling off their registration or transfering to a car? If there are multiple bikes destroyed in this way, does this increase the quota of available license plates that could be potentially re-transfered to a brand new bike?

---

Yes, this is very much about bringing order to the streets and ridding them of dangerous bikes and irresponsible riders.

There are tons of legal plates out there, and many of the bikes to which they are attached indeed are coming up against their mandatory scrap dates. But surely their owners know precisely how much their plates are worth and will hold them or cash in as they see fit. As for the total number of plates in circulation in the market, I believe that if the scarcity goes so high that plate prices rise to ridiculous levels -- i.e., double or triple that of car plates -- the bureau will start releasing new plates to meet demand. But by then the streets likely will be pretty much cleared of illegal rocketscoots and brakeless rustbuckets.

Look also at the ever-stricter emissions rules. These are not aiming to eliminate bikes, but to hold those that are licensed to the highest possible emissions standards. As of the past few months, bikes that do not meet the China3 standard, which is actually tougher than Euro3, simply are not allowed to be registered anywhere in China. Would that the US Congress and government could show as much backbone!

cheers!