Illegal Modifications

I am curious and am fairly sure I know the answer to this question, but after reading up on some of the laws published it states...

Article 16 No units or individuals shall do the following:

　　(1) assembling motor vehicles or altering the registered composition, structure or features of motor vehicles without authorization;

　　(2) changing the models of motor vehicles, their engine number, chassis number or the identification code of the vehicles;

So, am I led to believe that once a bike has been licensed I must rebuild the same motor should it fail in order to retain the engine number? Or does an authorized service shop have the ability to replace the motor with say..one that is better of the same cc? Of course the owner says its not a problem, but....:rolleyes1:

I ask because I have found a decent used bike, but the motor is shot (cracked case). I don't mind dropping in a new one but not if its going to cause ANY issues with registration or future inspections.

Do you mean this ?
1.1.2.13 No unit or individual is allowed to illegally assemble a motorized vehicle.
or this
1.1.2.14 No professional repair enterprise may change the model number, engine number and the chassis number of a motorized vehicle.

A good one to understand is this.
1.1.2.21 If a person who has a foreign driving license for motorized vehicle and has passed the tests administered by the traffic control department of the public security organ, a Chinese driving license for motorized vehicle may be issued to him.


Gra.

you need to get authorisation from the applicable traffic PSB first. Even if you want to change the colour of a vehicle it has to be approved. Some legit motor vehicle dealers/shops have the necessary guanxi and can arrange this for you, but the onus is on you. Sometimes the manufacturer can also assist with this.

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

you need to get authorization from the applicable traffic PSB first. Even if you want to change the colour of a vehicle it has to be approved. Some legit motor vehicle dealers/shops have the necessary guanxi and can arrange this for you, but the onus is on you. Sometimes the manufacturer can also assist with this.

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Thanks,...WOW thats some harsh rules. I don't think I have ANYTHING that has not been customized, painted or altered in some shape or fashion...especially anything with a motor in it. There is a nice repair shop down the road, they often do repairs on police bikes and they have several nice rides there, guess I need to see if they can pull off some of these things.

Darn, even painting a bike needs paperwork...grrr

Great topic. Under national law, our motorcycles must be inspected every other year for the first five or six years, then annually after that. When you first register your bike, a picture is taken and it goes into your little motorcycle passport. This picture can, and sometimes is, used to identify unauthorized modifications to your bike. Most of us have made many changes -- better mufflers, taller windscreens, all manner of aftermarket parts and farkle. In Beijing, many riders advise that you strip all the farkle and bust your bike back to original condition whenever you go in for inspection. This has been the case in Shanghai from time to time, but not in recent years.

You'll see frequent reference in MCM threads to the concerns of owners that swapping engines or making other major changes can/will create obstacles at inspection time. This is based on actual fact, the experience of MCM members who dutifully report these things to all of us, so we can proceed more wisely.

It's a toxic rule, but there you go.

Cheers

Well, I guess the key here is to get the bike exactly the way you want it from the get go. As for a paint job, maybe buy a new fairing kit to paint and keep the old ones?

Wonder how it applies in the event of an accident? Could something as simple as the bike not being the same color be grounds to work against you with the PSB..:confused1:

Agreed - great topic.

Things are tight in Beijing, at least at the large inspection station by the East 5th ring road (and G1) where most motorcycle registration and inspections are done.

One of my bikes is a single-seater and its registration shows only 1 person. I asked the counter police about how I get the registration changed if I mount the pillion seat and pegs (optional accessories from the dealer). Was told that it is impossible - the bike is a one-seat motorcycle. I then asked the dealer, who confirmed that the registration cannot be changed. The dealer said that if I had purchased the optional pillion seat/pegs with the new bike, prior to initial registration, the bike would have been registered as a 2 passenger bike.

The counter police said that it is possible to change the color. I am not sure if you need prior approval, or if it is ok to just show up at the inspection yard with the bike in its new color.

As for the pictures, that has become quite strict in Beijing. So strict that when a picture is taken during an inspection/transfer, it must perfectly match the original. The matching is done online, by some unknown mystery-person in another building, who will not authorize the final "pass" / "transfer" (online) unless he/she believes it is identical. Amazingly, at the inspection station entrance, there is an assembly of loaner tools to put your bike back to its original condition (remove windscreen, bags, hand guards, etc). At the exit, there is another group of loaner tools to put your parts back on (remount windscreen, bags, hand guards, etc). It is almost comical to watch. TIC.

I use an agent for almost all of my legal plating, transfers, etc. The guy only does motorcycles, five days a week, fifty weeks a year. He tells me that he is frequently frustrated by a non-matching picture. When he did my JH's inspection last year, we had to remove the pannier's mounting frame (aftermarket) and hand guards. Fortunately, the aftermarket exhaust was on the side of the bike that is not in the registration picture.

I think most of the illegal modifications are ignored by the police, until that time when you need your bike to be legal (e.g., after an accident).

I'm guessing that an original dealer might be able to work something out with a necessary engine swap.

I guess if ya keep it limited to mostly bolt on mods, its not to much of an issue. I see pimped scooters here all the time. However I never thought about changing the color as a big deal and was hoping to get a plain vanilla bike without stickers so I could do a custom paint job. I will report my findings after I talk to the local service shop where I know the laoban has some connections and I am sure will offer some sound advice on how to get it done legally. Its the biggest shop in town, and he fixes police bikes so I am sure he has the skinny.

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Originally Posted by Lain

I am sure he has the skinny.

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Or at least an opinion. :loll:

It's pretty simple, all modifications to a vehicle are illegal. I've registered and renewed registrations many times with plenty of guanxi at the registry and inspection station. I've spent way too many hours putting bikes back to stock. Everything from stickers, hand guards, reflectors, emissions parts, etc. etc. must be exactly as presented by the factory. I have even brought brand new factory modded bikes to the registry and been turned away because some minor detail does not match the specs in the registry database. Engine replacements are fine as long as it's the same model engine and the factory stamps the same engine number.

Throw a set of saddlebags on a motorcycle and have an accident, I don't think you're going to have a problem. Put a liquid cooled 250 engine with a loud exhaust pipe on a farmer joe 125cc bike and have an accident, you might have some problems.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Lain, you will not get 100% correct factual objective information from the Laoban... as ChinaV suggests, you will get a subjective one that might work at best, or worse provide incorrect information as 100% kosha only to be lead up the garden path with the potential drastic and undesirable consequences. The Laoban may think that it will not be a big deal and perhaps mistakenly believe that as a foreigner the rules will be bent and not really apply to you - an often misguided and dangerous common false belief all too prevalent in China.

My update will have to wait until after the CNY, as they are already closed for the holiday. I have doubts that the info I will get might be partially incorrect, but as mentioned it's the only shop in town where I see police bikes being repaired and the shop is nice, CLEAN and appears to be one of the few places I can think of where I could ask such a question, and get a reasonably straight reply.

I will make it clear that I want to know what the law says, and not as it may pertain to me as a foreigner.

Any update?

Planning the initial registration of a new bike and wonder wether I should install custom decals and handguards before the first registration, so everything is already how I want to have it on the first picture taken.

I am living in a small town and doubt an enduro has been registred here before.

Btw I is it possible to have supermoto AND offroad tyres (different diameter) registred with the same bike?

^absolutely get the bike how you want it set up with items that are clearly distinguishable and discernible at the time of the registration as that is how the vehicle must look at the time of re-inspection etc. So if you are planning on cases, top box, bigger items that will likely standout then fit them first then do the reg. Far easier than having to remove everything later. It isn't always a problem but it can be, as is usual TIC and guanxi can and does come into play. You can be seen by two different cops and one, or other, or both, or none, or the same, or the other... cop can take issue with something that looks different... take your pick.

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

^absolutely get the bike how you want it set up with items that are clearly distinguishable and discernible at the time of the registration as that is how the vehicle must look at the time of re-inspection etc. So if you are planning on cases, top box, bigger items that will likely standout then fit them first then do the reg. Far easier than having to remove everything later.

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took one for the China JL JH600 biker community, last week my army green JL600 was registered as the first ever 2-wheel JL JH600 in Huzhou and the cops at the vehicle rego office ask if i want the bike entered into the vehicle management bureau computer with or without the red Rotopax Gas Pack mounted. Took the gas pack off for the pic to make rego of future JL JH600's easier as every new JH600 (2-wheel) would need the gas pack mounted to be registered in case I left it on the bike. apparently my JH JL600 pic is used as reference for new registrations of 2-wheel JL JH600's in the future (dropped all the paperwork off on Friday to be initially entered (6 hours time was told) in the computer system - went to up Moganshan Lodge and picked up plate and rego on Monday after the usual vehicle test and frame number print with red ink, etc... etc.).

once they issued me the plates and all documents peeled off the silly looking Jialing stickers and markings.....

Ok, thats some usefull input, then I will certainly customize somthing, but do it with reason.

For the decals I am not worried, there are at least 5 different styles coming from the factory itself.

Any idea how to handle Supermto tyres?

How about electrical mods? Like a louder horn, offroad lights. How they test the lights? Do they take the dB values of exhaust/horn?

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Originally Posted by TB-Racing

took one for the China JL JH600 biker community, last week my army green JL600 was registered as the first ever 2-wheel JL JH600 in Huzhou and the cops at the vehicle rego office ask if i want the bike entered into the vehicle management bureau computer with or without the red Rotopax Gas Pack mounted. Took the gas pack off for the pic to make rego of future JL JH600's easier as every new JH600 (2-wheel) would need the gas pack mounted to be registered in case I left it on the bike. apparently my JH JL600 pic is used as reference for new registrations of 2-wheel JL JH600's in the future (dropped all the paperwork off on Friday to be initially entered (6 hours time was told) in the computer system - went to up Moganshan Lodge and picked up plate and rego on Monday after the usual vehicle test and frame number print with red ink, etc... etc.).

once they issued me the plates and all documents peeled off the silly looking Jialing stickers and markings.....

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Yeah I like the rotopax you have on the rear. A few inmates on yamahasupertenere.com and advrider.com have them fitted in all kinds of configurations. I just wonder though how you planning to refit the stickers especially the "jialing" stickers. Mind you, you've got 2 years now to worry about that LoL. Don't tell me you plan on substituting for some other brand/manufacturers dongle?

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Originally Posted by snakeeater

Ok, thats some usefull input, then I will certainly customize somthing, but do it with reason.
For the decals I am not worried, there are at least 5 different styles coming from the factory itself.
Any idea how to handle Supermto tyres?
How about electrical mods? Like a louder horn, offroad lights. How they test the lights? Do they take the dB values of exhaust/horn?

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Tyres are not going to be a problem so long as they have adequate tread. Whether or not they notice you have road, offroad, combo tyre types is likely neither here nor there IMO. Louder horn might be a problem, sometimes. Lights likewise can be a problem. I have HID's upgraded on all my bikes aside from my Burgman 650 and a little 125 jijian scoot (which sits gathering dust in a room off the garage, as I don't ride it). The Dragstar and Jetmax both have HIDs and I had the HID fitted on a CF250T-VIP scoot which I sold long ago. I just have my local motorcycle Suzuki/CFMoto/Regal Raptor dealer handle the inspections... no problem. Though I was warned that one of the bikes might fail because of the HID lights, so the dealer workshop wanted to swap the HID for standard, but the head salesman said he'd sort it if it was a problem... which it wasn't in the end. It's the reason why nearly all Chinese manufactured bikes have 35/35w halogen bulbs (Jetmax, Jetlux, CF650NK, CF650TR et al.). Meanwhile all the peasants in their tractor BMW's Audi's Mercedes, drive round with their HID with projectors on high beam the whole night long, must be "until the cows come home" LoL. But as is customary, TIC and all rules are open to interpretation by those in control...

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

Yeah I like the rotopax you have on the rear.

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yeah, beats the bloody metal jerry cans, imported a few sets of Rotopax Gas Packs (various mounts & sizes) for mates into dual sport bikes and 4x4's....

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

I just wonder though how you planning to refit the stickers especially the "jialing" stickers. Mind you, you've got 2 years now to worry about that LoL. Don't tell me you plan on substituting for some other brand/manufacturers dongle?

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they invented double sided tape quite some time ago and the bike will stay army green - plain and simple.... lovin' it.....

Dear TB-Racing,

It's actually quite interesting that Jialing supplied a sticker with their brand in Chinese. Mine had only pinyin branding, so when I registered my bike -- the first JH600 two-wheeler in Shanghai -- the registration authorities actually took a stencil and spray-painted the 嘉陵 brand on my bike. "The rules say the bike MUST display the brand in Chinese to be legally registered." Shanghai being an eminently reasonable place, however, the guy who sprayed the white "paint" through the stencil told me, "It washes right off." And so it did.

The fact that Jialing supplied actual stickers suggests an awareness of this regulation.

At my two-year re-registration last June, there was not a peep about the lack of a Chinese brand, or the presence of an aftermarket muffler, or the presence of Tourfella racks and non-standard rear top rack and Taobao-sourced handguards. These did NOT conform with the picture in my registration booklet, nor did they conform with the image of my bike that, like yours in Huzhou, was immortalized in the Shanghai motorcycle registry as the first official sample of the species in Shanghai.

That said, it's stupid as hell that China forbids customization of motor vehicles.

cheers!

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Originally Posted by euphonius

It's actually quite interesting that Jialing supplied a sticker with their brand in Chinese.

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See my threads, both my JL bikes came with the thick decals (rubber - plastic stickers) from the factory and easily peeled off and re-applied with double sided tape if necessary. They stuck onto the garage door in the moment for safe keeping till needed....

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Originally Posted by euphonius

That said, it's stupid as hell that China forbids customization of motor vehicles.

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now that should keep the kings of tacky bling busy once they have to go for the check-ups.... HOG crew....

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Originally Posted by euphonius

"The rules say the bike MUST display the brand in Chinese to be legally registered."

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Tell me about it, stickers had to be made for registration and licensing and a picture says more.....

http://oi48.tinypic.com/nv30oj.jpg

The answer is simple. It depends on the weather.

By that I mean there's the law, then there's what's enforced - and this changes from region to region and from day to day. In Shanghai there was a fast-growing car modification scene about 2 years ago with many shops opened up to add kits to sports cars (both cosmetic and performance). Then there was a serious accident covered in the media and overnight these shops closed down. Now seems the car modifications are again on the rise, especially "flat paintjobs" - flatblack, flatpurple, flatbabyblue, flatpink....I'm so sick of flat (but do still think the JH600 would look good flatted out).

This past Summer, both Euphonius and I were both a bit concerned about our after-market exhausts, pannier racks, hand guards, etc. when it came time for inspection (I also have HIDs installed). We separately went for inspections (probably different inspectors) and both came out with clean renewals for another 2-years. So there you go. Depends on the weather.

* Edit: Forgot to mention my carbon fiber-taped handlebar ends! :bling:

Attachment 10438

And please be mindful of Section 3.....

Article 16 No units or individual shall do the following:



　　(1) assembling motor vehicles or altering the registered composition, structure or features of motor vehicles without authorization;

　　(2) changing the models of motor vehicles, their engine number, chassis number or the identification code of the vehicles;

　 (3) changing the structure or features of apparel articles including riding fashion and clothing.

Attachment 10439

"Smart" paint job ...

Attachment 10498

I don't understand the Chinese *logic* on these modifications. If you have millions of unregistered uninsured motorcycles that crop up even on TV shows and in coffee ads, you'd think that you'd be given a medal for actually having the patience and virtue to actually keep a bike registered and insured unlike the other 99% of bikers. As long as any mods are safe, why the hell make people jump through more hoops? :rolleyes1: Daft.

Also I suspect my bike would fail inspection, but that is because the 'mods' done are just fixes or improvements to the original bike.

I have learned, there is no Chinese word for Logic

I can't find a thread that deals exclusively with illegal bikes, so I am tossing this in here ...

I guess everyone has heard about the new Exit/Entry laws coming into effect on July 1, 2013. Lots of info on various English websites in China.

Anyways, there was a recent public forum I attended where a "leader" from the PSB, Exit/Entry department was explaining the new rules. The guy must have been high up, because he had lots of those silver things on his shoulder and collar.

One of the key things he mentioned was that the Chinese consulates/embassies in other countries, as well as the PSB offices inside China, will now be able to refuse a visa (new or renewal) for ANY reason that the consular/PSB officer feels appropriate, especially if it is felt that the person will not follow the rules/laws of China. Further, the actual reason for a refusal does not have to be disclosed. Before jumping on China, note that this is the current practice in most Western countries who also deny visas for seemingly no apparent reason, and no actual reason is given - just a "denied" stamp.

So, apparently the big reasons for denial will be overstaying a prior visa, working in China on the wrong visa type, and previously behaving in a manner that is inconsistent with a harmonious society. But the keynote speaker said there could be a number of other reasons, and it would be at the discretion of the consular/PSB officer (again, this is the same with many countries).

At the end of the forum, the floor was opened for questions. When I got my turn, I asked:

"What about traffic offences? Could a person be denied a visa (or renewal) for traffic offences? And, if so, what type?"

There was a bit of discussion, but it essentially boiled down to:

1) Yes, if the visa applicant had violating serious traffic laws, then the applicant may be denied a visa (renewal), at the discretion of the consular/PSB officer.
2) A serious traffic offence would include those of a criminal nature, such as impaired driving, hit & run, being responsible for an accident that resulted in death or serious injury, and involvement in the trade, distribution, operation of illegal vehicles / documents.
3) Lesser offences such as speeding, jay-walking, would most probably not have an impact.

I tried to press for specific answers, but I began to feel that I was drawing too much attention to myself. Not wise. But I did get an answer to the question ... "What about a person who is driving an illegally imported vehicle with fake plates and documents?" After receiving an incredulous glare (it was then that I realized I had certainly drawn too much attention to myself) I was told that this type of offence can be regarded as serious, and perhaps even classified as criminal, but it would still be up to the discretion of of the consular/PSB official. Again, it might result in a refusal for a visa, or a visa renewal, but without any reason for the refusal given.

After making a quick exit, incognito, I gave it some thought about what would happen back home. I am pretty sure that if somebody in Canada on a visa was zooming around in a stolen/illegally imported vehicle, with fake plates, license, etc., they would probably be denied a visa renewal. That is, of course, after spending some time in Canada's "free hotel" operated by the police.

Then again, TI (still) C, so I wonder how the implementation of the new Exit/Entry laws will be done? I have no idea what sort of database is kept, or who has access.

Somewhat off-topic, but interesting, was the commercial dispute elements that were discussed - there will be a broader application of refused permission to exit China if one is involved in a commercial dispute where the amount of money is > 100,000 rmb. That isn't really a lot of money and could, I am making a wild guess, be easily exceeded by a traffic accident where the other party claims injuries.

Looks like the wild, wild East is moving into the history books, bit by bit.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

"What about traffic offences? Could a person be denied a visa (or renewal) for traffic offences? And, if so, what type?"
A serious traffic offence would include those of a criminal nature, such as impaired driving, hit & run, being responsible for an accident that resulted in death or serious injury, and involvement in the trade, distribution, operation of illegal vehicles / documents.

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Now, don't know about Beijing but some foreigners in Shanghai got deported during the last few years for driving under heavy alcohol influence or not holding a valid Chinese driving license while operating a motor vehicle after a detention period between 10-15 days.
The resident permits aka Z Visas were cancelled and no return to ML China on any type of visa for a minimum of 10 years or even more. Know of two cases (EU Citizen) were the deportee was a company owner and a director / investor on the China company license and had families living in Shanghai as well. All started to get heavy and serious down here in the "Big Smoke" Shanghai before the 2010 WorldExpo......

Had a young British guy working for me in Shanghai around 5 years ago and he got booted out of the country after 2x10 days detention (he was charged with two criminal offences / not traffic - vehicle related) and the time spent at the Pudong detention house was not a walk in the park I can tell you that as I worked closely with the British consulate during his detention period.
After his release he had 24hrs. to leave the country and of course went straight to Hong-Kong to apply for a new visa but was denied any type of ML China visa, went back to London (UK) and wrote a letter of self critismn and apologies, went to China embassy and was once again refused a visa for a minimum of 25 years even with a new UK passport (changed UK address and new passport number). After his visa refusal in HK / UK we had to get the British consulate involved once again to ship his personal belongings out of China to the UK as his Z visa was cancelled...

Shanghai (Pudong) Detention Center located on Hunan Road: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Detention_Center and Shanghai Qingpu District has a new larger one, huge blue and white signs pointing towards the new center from HuQingPing Highway near Qingpu City.

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Engine replacements are fine as long as it's the same model engine and the factory stamps the same engine number.

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Just to clarify, (as I've just had my engine blow-up...) you're talking about the engine number that's both stamped on the engine casing AND listed inside of the blue-book, right? This means I need to purchase factory-direct and can't get one elsewhere? My 2 year inspection is coming up in July an I want to make sure I pass.

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Originally Posted by thedannywahl

Just to clarify, (as I've just had my engine blow-up...) you're talking about the engine number that's both stamped on the engine casing AND listed inside of the blue-book, right? This means I need to purchase factory-direct and can't get one elsewhere? My 2 year inspection is coming up in July an I want to make sure I pass.

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Correct.

Engine number stamped on the engine and the registration card (blue wallet [& green book]) must match.