Newbie from Western Australia

Hello MCMers,
I have joined this group to ask about what is the best bike brand to travel around china next year.
I would like to buy a bike direct from the factory. Fabricate up some touring luggage racks and go.
My preference is for a tall, Light trailbike I am 1.88- 6'2" Tall.

I have looked at a Zongshen CQR250 water-cooled on Tao bao this looks like good value.
I would love to have an Asia wing 450 120kg dry but I might get carried away with the power.
Maybe settle for their 250?
A Shineray X5? they seem quite heavy 160kg dry !
All suggestions welcome.
I need advice on getting it licensed. I want to ride it to Thailand.


I rode BMWs across the states and Europe quite a few years ago as well as traversing Australia.
I rode a Vespa for a dare from Kalgoolie to Alice springs across the desert som 1900km a long time ago.

Look forward to tour suggestions.
Regards Colin

First of all hi and welcome!
Secondly, I hope you are aware of the legal and safety situation about riding China? Please check the sticky threads on 'ride prep and making tracks'. Everything you need to know is posted there.
I'd suggest not going near Asiawing, try a brand that has a direct relationship with an overseas company, as those bikes are usually more reliable and easier to sell.

Hello ZMC888,
Thanks for the prompt response.
I appreciate the advice. I have been wading through Ride Prep and Making Tracks Forum.
I have driven quite a lot in Thailand. Even through Bangkok so that should give me a little insight to what china is like. Riding in Laos on a rented chinese honda was quite scary as the bike brakes (discs) where useless. And it took time to adjust to riding on the right hand side.

It looks like the the first hurdle to cross is getting a residence permit.
I am hoping to get a business class visa. I want to inspect some engineering and building supply businesses in my travels.
The Asiawing bikes looked great on paper and they sell them with different Brand names all over the western world. Here in Australia they are badged as ODES. I have not seen one as the only two supply places are in eastern states 3-5000 km away.
One of the importers has got them through the Australian Design Regulation testing so they are legal to be licensed in Australia. If that says anything.
However if they where still as rough as NZOOM reported back in 2009 at http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...NG-LX450/page3
I am quite sure that they would not have passed the ADRs.

I am keeping an open mind as the what brand of motorcycle. I read Pat Gormans http://www.chinamotorrider.com/author/pat/page/7/ ride aroung china on a Qingqi 200GY dual sport. As well as Jeremy and Lulu's http://www.chinamotorrider.com/tag/1...-around-china/.
Which I found very inspiring.
I found a Shineray X5 on Taobao http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...07.10039.168.0
by pure chance and at ¥27800.00 which is about AUD $5100 that is quite a bit of money to invest with the potential of having the back spokes break etc.
So initially I am looking at a Shineray X2 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=15816070566
Or Qingi LIGER(QM250GY-B)

Or maybe just be a cheap ass and carry a good set of tools.
I would welcome further feed back from all
Redards Whitworth

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...p260904107ca9d

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZMC888

First of all hi and welcome!
Secondly, I hope you are aware of the legal and safety situation about riding China? Please check the sticky threads on 'ride prep and making tracks'. Everything you need to know is posted there.
I'd suggest not going near Asiawing, try a brand that has a direct relationship with an overseas company, as those bikes are usually more reliable and easier to sell.

---

Gidday and welcome onboard the MCM cRaZy bus...

I appreciate you're looking for a lightweight bike... but you might like to consider a few other mid displacement bikes albeit big by the local standards. How about JH600?

By the time you land in PRC you might find there are a few more options... including some models being built in ASEAN countries (namely Thailand) making the journey and being legally landed in PRC for much less than other imports from other locations (including Japan, EU etc).

Also Benelli will likely have their 600cc 4 cylinder 4 stroke being straddled by a ADV style frame and suspenders, while CFMoto will have their 650MT 2 cylinder 4 stroke ADV bike out by end of 2014 although dates are unconfirmed. Redbook OZ has the 650MT slated for release November 2014, but as usual it'll be watch this space.

Attachment 14647

Have just spent two days at CFMoto factory Hangzhou, with my mate Jon, in support of Buck and Amy of the Great Ride of China who have broken the world record with more than 25000km surpassed (and counting) being longest distance ridden by motorcycle in one country. Congratulations Buck and Amy...
:kumbaya:

Attachment 14649

Attachment 14648

Got to view all the CFMoto products currently available, and had a chance to see a couple a brand new KTMs including the 1190adv, though these weren't on display in the showroom ;) nice..!

Attachment 14650

BTW be careful buying off any 'dealer' on Taobao...
first; just because they have pictures, don't make it real,
second; a bloody good deal too good to be true - stamp that mantra to your forehead,
thirdly; any 'seller' who isn't prepared to accept payment through Alipay should be treated with caution (read: contempt)...
then there are other issues to consider, like after sales service and support, fapiao, supply chain, warranty and a whole host of bull faeces to deal with...
Many of the motorcycles advertised on Taobao is :bs: but not all mind... there are a few fairly honest motorcycle dealers/sellers on Taobao.

Some of the manufacturers would likely be willing to sell a single bike direct, but warranty and servicing would still likely need to be handled by a dealer. Either approach can be a bit hit-and-miss.

Hello Bikerdoc,
Thanks for the sage advice about Taobao. With my zero Chinese language I am really fumbling about on there.
Its more of a guide to set a budget.
I am hoping that I can buy direct from the factory. May or may not be a dream. Thiis hopefully would enable me to make some direct contacts for the warranty and service issues that you mentioned
Please tell me more about the Thai models you allude to. My primary goal is to have a bike in Thailand. The cheap ones there are all made in China and assembled in Thailand. Lifan for example. So I figured why not buy on in China and ride it to my part time home.
A 650 two stroke twin sounds like a bit of a weapon. It brings back images of Kawasaki ans Suzuki 750 triples and 500cc open class Motorcrossers. Lookout !!!
They where all quite lethal weapons in theie own right.

The last two posts have been great information. Keep them coming
Regards Whitworth

No CFMoto aren't making a 2 stroker. Sorry that was a typo, - corrected. I can't make any comment yet on who or what is being made in Thailand, other than to say I was not meaning to imply that a PRC manufacturer was doing so. I'm referring to international motorcycle brands... but since one of your fellow countryman decided to be an arse over a post about a collaboration between an Austrian motorcycle brand consisting of three letters and CFMoto I started a thread on quite some time ago, I'm not going to go out on a limb with too much pre-release insider info. Suffice to say that one Italian brand is joining the ranks of both KTM, Kawasaki and others in manufacturing some models in Thailand. Nuff said...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bikerdoc

I'm not going to go out on a limb with too much pre-release insider info. Suffice to say that one Italian brand is joining the ranks of both KTM, Kawasaki and others in manufacturing some models in Thailand. Nuff said...

---

DOC, let me help here. Anyways it's hardly a secret by now.

The new Ducati Scrambler will be procuced in Thailand, featuring the air cooled Ducati V-twin and "is intended to be a low-priced, easily accessible bike sporting a great look." (http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/15...s-and-updates/)

Let's not forget that the Thailand Ducati plant is already fully operative and already producing the Monster 795 for Asian markets. Said bike retails in China for around 119'000 RMB. Source: http://ducatichina.cn/bike/121

Welcome Whitworth!

Several MCM members, past and present, have ridden around China. Most have done this on small, domestic bikes and/or scooters. The main reason for this is simple ... mechanical support.

The interesting roads in China are punishing on a machine. The bike will be shaked, rattled & rolled (and so will you) into oblivion. However, small domestic motorcycles are the basic transportation for most of China's population (i.e., rural residents), and these bikes need to be repaired on a regular basis. Every little hamlet has a "mechanic" who can "repair" these basic motorcycles, for mere pennies. Further, you don't need fluency in Chinese - just point and cry - they'll quickly figure it out, and point you to nearest place to get food & beer, while you wait for them to rebuild your bike with a crescent wrench and a hammer. If you're on an imported bike, it will be the shop personnel who will be pointing ... and laughing ... and saying "hell ya, we can swap that Duc L twin engine out with a Jialing 150cc - we just need to weld some new mounts in, and toss out all that EFI crap!"

We, inside China, are being teased by new offerings from foreign manufacturers ... but they are far from being an intelligent "travel around China" bike. There is simply no dealer support network, and the advanced technologies require specialized tools, handled by trained technicians - both of which you will never find outside the major urban areas. Besides, imported bike prices are ridiculous - truly insane - it is all about showing off a certain image.

When I get paroled from China, and back to a bike-friendly country, my first purchase will be the new model of Ducati Multistrada (which Kevin Ash [RIP] calls "probably the best motorcycle in the world") ... but while I am still serving out my sentence, I'll stick with inexpensive domestic bikes. Frankly, any domestic bike is fine, if you are riding solo. Over in Chinese motorcycle forums, lots of "adv riders" prefer scooters for around-China tours.

My two cent recommendation would be to get a reasonably priced and LIGHT bike, commonly used by your typical Chinese rider. Spend your money on hotels with a decent toilet. In the long run, that will make your trip MUCH more enjoyable!

Addendum: also budget for carrying your own toilet paper. :lol8:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vale46

DOC, let me help here. Anyways it's hardly a secret by now.

The new Ducati Scrambler will be procuced in Thailand, featuring the air cooled Ducati V-twin and "is intended to be a low-priced, easily accessible bike sporting a great look." (http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/15...s-and-updates/)

Let's not forget that the Thailand Ducati plant is already fully operative and already producing the Monster 795 for Asian markets. Said bike retails in China for around 119'000 RMB. Source: http://ducatichina.cn/bike/121

---

Hello Vale,
Thanks for the tip. I looked at the article and there is a picture of a 450 scrambler. My mate used to have one of these and I clocked quite a few hours riding around in the outback on it.
It was a really light and handled quite well.
Amazing
Regards Whitworth

Several MCM members, past and present, have ridden around China. Most have done this on small, domestic bikes and/or scooters. The main reason for this is simple ... mechanical support.

The interesting roads in China are punishing on a machine. The bike will be shaked, rattled & rolled (and so will you) into oblivion. However, small domestic motorcycles are the basic transportation for most of China's population (i.e., rural residents), and these bikes need to be repaired on a regular basis. Every little hamlet has a "mechanic" who can "repair" these basic motorcycles, for mere pennies. Further, you don't need fluency in Chinese - just point and cry - they'll quickly figure it out, and point you to nearest place to get food & beer, while you wait for them to rebuild your bike with a crescent wrench and a hammer. If you're on an imported bike, it will be the shop personnel who will be pointing ... and laughing ... and saying "hell ya, we can swap that Duc V twin out with a Jialing 150cc - we just need to weld some new mounts in"

We, inside China, are being teased by new offerings from foreign manufacturers ... but they are far from being an intelligent "travel around China" bike. There is simply no dealer support network, and the advanced technologies require specialized tools, handled by trained technicians - both of which you will never find outside the major urban areas. Besides, imported bike prices are ridiculous - truly insane - it is all about showing off a certain image.

When I get paroled from China, and back to a bike-friendly country, my first purchase will be the new model of Ducati Multistrada (which Kevin Ash [RIP] calls "probably the best motorcycle in the world") ... but while I am still serving out my sentence, I'll stick with inexpensive domestic bikes. Frankly, any domestic bike is fine, if you are riding solo. Over in Chinese motorcycle forums, lots of "adv riders" prefer scooters for around-China tours.

My two cent recommendation would be to get a reasonably priced and LIGHT bike, commonly used by your typical Chinese rider. Spend your money on hotels with a decent toilet. In the long run, that will make your trip MUCH more enjoyable![/QUOTE]

Hello Lao Jia Hou,
My sentiments exactly. I know from my limited riding and extensive driving around Thailand and Laos that your advice is spot on.
I have been talking to my mates and they are of the opinion that something like a Yamaha WR250R is the bike.
While I realise the Yamaha is still quite a technically advanced bike. Is there a chinese equivalent?
Not having local knowledge means I have to ask these questions.
What do you think of this Bike
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...p260904107ca9d
I do like the comment about the toilet paper Ha ha
Regards Whitworth

Closest to a WR250R would be the 鑫源x2, copy and paste that into a taobao search field and you see lots of them.

If your only there for business and the bikes is just a tool to get around, there are lots of cheap 150cc versions designed for the Chinese roads, ones with lots of racks to pile on . A dirt bike is never ideal to carry stuff on, they have these types bikes that are very utilitarian. Yingang makes one of these they call it a Mountain King 銀鋼, its a CG150 it probably be a good bike for your purpose.

Thanks MJH
I will look up the Yinyang.
I am just a bit concerned about how well a 150 will drag my not inconsiderable weight around.
I appreciate your comments regarding putting luggage racks on a Dirt bike.
I will post some images of how my mates have done this tonight.
What I like about the dirt bikes is that that they are light weight and their suspension is going to handle Chinese roads.
Regards Whitworth

Whitworth, I don't really understand why you want a dirt bike. Sure road/trail possibly, but people are doing big trips on tourers these days. Not every road is a lunar landscape, there are millions of kilometers of smooth black asphalt and concrete too.

If you are going 250cc, personally I'd be inclined to buy a Jianshe Yamaha YBR250 for the type of trip you are into. Then put road/trail tires on it, hand protectors and a luggage rack. Sure it would be nice to have more suspension travel, but it can deal admirably well with the conditions. YBR's have been ridden around China and across Asia plenty of times. Light, reliable and easy to fix, you can pick it up when you drop it. Sure, you worry about EFI, but I'd take Yamaha EFI over a Yingang carb any day. Also China is very mountainous so playing around with jets is a pain at altitude. The Yamaha's the real thing, not a copy of it. Sure those copy bikes will look like your ideal bike the WR250R but they won't have the Yamaha reliability. In my view there is no reason to throw away all that Yamaha reliability for an extra 40mm of suspension travel on a Chinese bike.

Go with Chinese bikes only if you are dead set on a bigger engine and the bike you'd like isn't available in China or is ridiculously expensive.
Going bigger I'd suggest the CFMOTO 650TR, the Jialing JH600 or wait until CFMOTO and Benelli have released their new adventure models next year.

It’s a matter of how much you want to spend as always. If you are not in the country for an extended stay then at the end of the stay you have to get rid of the vehicle. You could get off very cheap and make compromises or buy up and not make as many compromises.


You have the Zongshen RX3, Shineray X5 and Benneli BN600GT. However if you get out into villages and or the rural areas your going to have compromises on serviceability as you go up.


There is always more then what you can see online as well and conversely also often less. You can get screwed in allot of ways as you can get lucky too.


I do not think I would use Taobao to buy a motorcycle, I would try to find a local dealer to buy from.
I think I would try using the new motor.com.cn website to locate a bike/dealer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZMC888

Whitworth, I don't really understand why you want a dirt bike. Sure road/trail possibly, but people are doing big trips on tourers these days. Not every road is a lunar landscape, there are millions of kilometers of smooth black asphalt and concrete too.

If you are going 250cc, personally I'd be inclined to buy a Jianshe Yamaha YBR250 for the type of trip you are into. Then put road/trail tires on it, hand protectors and a luggage rack. Sure it would be nice to have more suspension travel, but it can deal admirably well with the conditions. YBR's have been ridden around China and across Asia plenty of times. Light, reliable and easy to fix, you can pick it up when you drop it. Sure, you worry about EFI, but I'd take Yamaha EFI over a Yingang carb any day. Also China is very mountainous so playing around with jets is a pain at altitude. The Yamaha's the real thing, not a copy of it. Sure those copy bikes will look like your ideal bike the WR250R but they won't have the Yamaha reliability. In my view there is no reason to throw away all that Yamaha reliability for an extra 40mm of suspension travel on a Chinese bike.

Go with Chinese bikes only if you are dead set on a bigger engine and the bike you'd like isn't available in China or is ridiculously expensive.
Going bigger I'd suggest the CFMOTO 650TR, the Jialing JH600 or wait until CFMOTO and Benelli have released their new adventure models next year.

---

Hello ZMC888
My current ride is an old BMW K75c. That's got quite a low seat height and I find that due to my height it gets uncomfortable fairly quickly. The seat height to foot peg distance means my long legs get quite cramped.
A dirt bike sits me taller and although the dirtbike seats are generally narrower I can use an Airhawk cushion
http://www.airhawk.com.au/content.php?content_id=7 to help in that department.
I do like your suggestion about the YBR 250. Fuel injection means great economy and better running at altitudes.
Not sure how I would fit that bike?
I expect that I will be doing quite a lot of dirt kilometres and I like the light weight of a dirt bike.
I would like not to have to sell it and ride it back to Thailand. Not sure how I would go with import duty or taxes at the borders.
I dont suppose there are any 250 fuel injected Chinese dirt bikes?
I did some internet research and discovered that I can buy a CFMOTO 650 or a Shineray 250 offroad in Australia.
Alan Cathcart did a reiview on a CFMOTO 650 here
http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cycle...pm=2&fs=1#pg87
I appreciate your input
Regards Whitworth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MJH

It’s a matter of how much you want to spend as always. If you are not in the country for an extended stay then at the end of the stay you have to get rid of the vehicle. You could get off very cheap and make compromises or buy up and not make as many compromises.


You have the Zongshen RX3, Shineray X5 and Benneli BN600GT. However if you get out into villages and or the rural areas your going to have compromises on serviceability as you go up.


There is always more then what you can see online as well and conversely also often less. You can get screwed in allot of ways as you can get lucky too.


I do not think I would use Taobao to buy a motorcycle, I would try to find a local dealer to buy from.
I think I would try using the new motor.com.cn website to locate a bike/dealer.

---

Hi MJH,
No I am not going to buy a bike from Taobao. I am just using it as a price guide.
The Zhongshen RX 3 and the Shineray X5. Really look the part.
The RX3 is 175kg?? in the brochure. The X5 would be ideal for my purposes. I found that It costs ¥27800.00 which is about AUD $5100 that is quite a bit of money to invest with the potential of having the back spokes break etc.

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...-review/page18

So it seems I am going to have to fettle with any Chinese bike I might just go the cheap charlie route and get on of these http://aimayueye.taobao.com/?spm=2013.1.0.0.Of06mf
Does any one know where and who make the above?

I pretty sure that I am going to stick with a 250. I think anything bigger will get me into trouble speed and traffic wise.
If it was in Australia where I am accustomed to the conditions and want to get there fast I would be buying something bigger.
But In China I want to stick to about 80km/Hour and stay alive.

Regards Whitworth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whitworthsocket

I do like your suggestion about the YBR 250. Fuel injection means great economy and better running at altitudes.
Not sure how I would fit that bike?

---

I'd still go YBR 250 with road/trail tires and get adjustable pegs if you are tall.
Attachment 14651

I agree with ZMC, the YBR250 is a great bike, and with more aggressive tires it can handle pretty much everything. I'm 180 cms, and the bike felt fine (I owned one for about a year).

You may have problems with getting one of those legally plated. I would say they are off road only.
You have the X2 and the Jailing 223cc air cooled that should be legal to plate, these are all suspicious IMO.


These guy all know what is up there they live there, I do not. The YBR250 would meet your needs and likely never breakdown either. It sell fast to when you need to sell it.


http://www.newmotor.com.cn/moto/JH20...7/baojia.shtml


I wonder if the weight on the RX3 is that wet? Its not light for sure they may have used the wet weight? Plus it may be the boxes and its crash bars in total? I wonder about the weight because the cases are the only option on the advanced version and the weight is the same on the brochure. The Honda CBR250 is 357lbs wet the RX3 does not claim it as wet or dry and that's a big mistake for them not to state that. Then there is the cases and not showing a difference in weight with and without, another mistake. It is a 28lb difference if it’s a wet weight.

Thanks for the great response.
Can I ask if the YBR250 is a current model. I looked on the Jialing website with no success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whitworthsocket

Thanks for the great response.
Can I ask if the YBR250 is a current model. I looked on the Jialing website with no success.

---

The YBR250 is made by Yamaha. Yes, it is a current model, although I have heard a rumor that it is being updated for 2014. Apparently, the body work is being changed to make it look sportier, in competition with the Suzuki GW250 that was released last year. Here is the Chinese website:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com.cn/mc/pr.../detail_9.html

The MSRP of the YBR250 is around 26,000 rmb in China (versus the GW250's MSRP of about 24,000 rmb). However, since the introduction of the GW250 hurt YBR250 sales, it seems that dealers are willing to negotiate the YBR250's MSRP down.

Over on the GW250 thread, I did a little comparison between the two bikes. The GW250 is a great bike, but I'd probably still prefer the YBR250 for extended trips.

Thanks Lao Jia Hou for the prompt response.
It helps if I was looking at the right companies website!
I cant believe how much heavier the GW 250 is 44kg is a huge amount.
I found an EFI 250 single Motard http://www.qingqi.com.cn/en/product_show.aspx?id=90
That is what I am leaning toward but I have no idea about reliability or quality.
I think I will have to wait till I get there and see the bikes in the flesh so to speak.
The YBR also looks very good.

I have another question. To get a drivers license and getting a bike registered I have to have a residency permit. Is this going to be hard to get?
Regards Whitworth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whitworthsocket

I have another question. To get a drivers license and getting a bike registered I have to have a residency permit. Is this going to be hard to get?
Regards Whitworth

---

Make sure your Australian driving license has a motorcycle endorsement on it. If it does, the process is easy (although you need to take a written exam). If you need to get the motorcycle endorsement inside China, it is much more complicated.

You have to have a residency permit to stay in China. Although it is a very simple thing to acquire, your employer will take care of it for you. The only driving license restriction is that your visa must be valid for at least 3 months continuous stay inside China. To register a bike in your name, the visa has to be >6 months continuous stay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Make sure your Australian driving license has a motorcycle endorsement on it. If it does, the process is easy (although you need to take a written exam). If you need to get the motorcycle endorsement inside China, it is much more complicated.

You have to have a residency permit to stay in China. Although it is a very simple thing to acquire, your employer will take care of it for you. The only driving license restriction is that your visa must be valid for at least 3 months continuous stay inside China. To register a bike in your name, the visa has to be >6 months continuous stay.

---

Hello Lao Jia Hou,
Thanks for the information. Australian License has the motorcycle endorsement on it. So one hurdle out of the way. I have downloaded Chinese Driving test flash cards to my mobile phone so that I can memorize the test.
I dont have an employer. I expect I would be getting a multiple entry business class visa for a year. I think that will make things hard for me.
Regards Whitworth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whitworthsocket

Hello Lao Jia Hou,
...Australian License has the motorcycle endorsement on it. So one hurdle out of the way. I have downloaded Chinese Driving test flash cards to my mobile phone so that I can memorize the test.
I dont have an employer. I expect I would be getting a multiple entry business class visa for a year. I think that will make things hard for me.
Regards Whitworth

---

Most likely it will, especially if the business visa requires exit out of the country <90 days... e.g. 30 days.

The Qingqi is a good bike it is exported to many countries under many different names and the bike is mostly based on Suzuki technology. However the reviews are somewhat mixed, the Jianshe Yamaha YBR250 reviews are better, although they are built for different purposes, in my view the Yamaha is the better bike.