Recomendation for Dual-sport Bike for Trip from China to Europe

Hello. I'm planning to fly into China (Macau) next week with my wife, to buy a motorbike and drive it across the border into Kyrgyzstan, then back home to Hungary.

I posted a previous thread here: http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...-Budapest-trip

Does anyone have any recommendations for a bike?

Checklist:

- dual-sport/trail bike/ semi-offroad bike
- at least 18" wheels.. better if the front is 21"
- 125cc+ with FI or 180cc+ with carb (very high mountain passes)
- engine parts available outside of China, the rest can be fixed with bodging/welding/using parts from other bikes
- Less than $1000 USD, if possible

We'll probably be about 150kg (75 + 55 + 20kg luggage).

Is Guangzhou a good place to buy a bike? Anyone living there that could give us a hand?

Many Thanks

David

$1000 is REALLY low budget. The most decent choice within budget is big bored YBR clone only. https://translate.google.com/transla...381%26page%3D1 Uses the SAME Keihin slide carb found on high altitude local bike.
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Guangzhou is a BAD place for bike.

I wish you the best of luck at the Baccarat tables in Macau ... to increase that budget.

Is a trail bike out of my price range? We could stretch a little. Otherwise that bike would certainly do.

Does buying a used bike make any sense? Or are prices quite high on used bikes?

I guess I could buy a copy of the YBR125G, then fit a big bore kit from taobao? Are there FI kits on there too? Could someone check for me? :-) Would be great not to have to mess with the jets all the time.

We fly to Macau, enter China, then would like to get a bike as soon as we could. Is there a district in Guangzhou with lots of bike shops?

How are driving conditions in China? Is it possible to cruise on secondary roads at 70kph? What is the reality of long-distance driving on a small bike?

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

Is a trail bike out of my price range? We could stretch a little. Otherwise that bike would certainly do.

Does buying a used bike make any sense? Or are prices quite high on used bikes?

I guess I could buy a copy of the YBR125G, then fit a big bore kit from taobao? Are there FI kits on there too? Could someone check for me? :-) Would be great not to have to mess with the jets all the time.

We fly to Macau, enter China, then would like to get a bike as soon as we could. Is there a district in Guangzhou with lots of bike shops?

How are driving conditions in China? Is it possible to cruise on secondary roads at 70kph? What is the reality of long-distance driving on a small bike?

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Hi as I said before the YBR G is a good bet yes it's a bit down on power for 2 people with gear, up hills ! Would be great if you could get and fit a big bore kit to add say 4 hp but only if you can get it set up correct in china ! As to the roads you need to read the RR from Buck & Amy called the The great ride in a China !! This will give you a good insight into what you can expect in china .
It all depends on what road works you hit !! So you can have at one point very nice roads and yes 70 km should be ok then next you will have your worse roads you can imagine . As said Guangzhou bad city for bikes so not many shops around so head out the city to find/buy a bike

As to riding on a small CC bike on a long ride I did say I was about to start a 15.000 km trip on a YBR G but I am one up with not much gear to carry max with me 110 kg so give me 12 weeks and I can report back on that question !!
Just one more point of view with small cc bike on long rides it Just take a bit longer to do :scooter:

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

Is a trail bike out of my price range? We could stretch a little. Otherwise that bike would certainly do.

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You could get a new 125cc-150cc bike trail(ish) for about $1200-$1400. A real YBR125G is your best bet, or maybe a factory Jialing JH125 or 150.

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Does buying a used bike make any sense? Or are prices quite high on used bikes?

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Buying a 2nd hand bike does make sense. Easier these days as everything for sale is listed online, but you'll need local help. Bikes depreciate quickly from new, a third cheaper after a year depending on brand, could be an economic solution to at least get a bigger capacity or better bike.

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I guess I could buy a copy of the YBR125G, then fit a big bore kit from taobao? Are there FI kits on there too? Could someone check for me? :-) Would be great not to have to mess with the jets all the time.

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I don't know if I'd want to mess around reboring and trying to retrofit EFI. Most Chinese mechanics can only do bodge fixes and change oil. Even if you could find a capable mechanic it would take days of frustration and language difficulties ordering parts online and then only maybe. Also get a real Yamaha if you can, it would be so much more reliable.

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We fly to Macau, enter China, then would like to get a bike as soon as we could. Is there a district in Guangzhou with lots of bike shops?

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I know that Guangzhou has some anti-motorcycle jihad mental disorder. I also think you'd be better off buying anywhere else. Jiangsu, Hebei, Chongqing and Shandong seem fairly liberal toward bikes, probably lots of other places too. Buy in a 2nd or 3rd tier city as registrations are much cheaper. Too small a place not enough choice, too big too much expense and restrictions.

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How are driving conditions in China? Is it possible to cruise on secondary roads at 70kph? What is the reality of long-distance driving on a small bike?

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The problem with China is the maps don't tell you that much. Some roads look OK in theory, in reality they are dirt covered truck pounded nightmares. Other roads are beautiful, but it's just impossible to know until you get there. Sometime you could make good progress, other days nearly nothing. Lots of hunting for hotels that don't stink at sunset covered in dirt.:naughty:

Thanks for the info!

I found a 180cc big bore kit on taobao for 360 CNY. No need to rebore, just bolt on a new cylinder/fit new piston. Maybe 180 is a bit too far.. maybe 150-160 is about right. Don't think the kits come with a jet though, that's another hassle. EFI.. yeah, probably a bit of a long shot :-)

Is the Yamaha really that much better? I'm a competent mechanic, but won't be carrying tools.

Jialing JH125. Looks like the 80s XL125, my first bike.

We fly in Macau, but might need to go to Hong Kong for the visa, trying to figure that out. Any suggestions for a attractive, or at least inexpensive town/city to stay nearby for some days while we get the bike and get set up for the trip? Really don't have much idea how China works. Don't speak any Mandarin unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

Thanks for the info!

I found a 180cc big bore kit on taobao for 360 CNY...

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139cc kit is the ONLY one that direct fits , other needs bigger bottom hole. Some stock Jianshe is 139 . http://www.motorfans.com.cn/bbs/t_612660.htm
Northern Zhongshan/ Jiangmen is a good place for buying bikes.

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

Thanks for the info!

I found a 180cc big bore kit on taobao for 360 CNY. No need to rebore, just bolt on a new cylinder/fit new piston. Maybe 180 is a bit too far.. maybe 150-160 is about right. Don't think the kits come with a jet though, that's another hassle. EFI.. yeah, probably a bit of a long shot :-)

Is the Yamaha really that much better? I'm a competent mechanic, but won't be carrying tools.

Jialing JH125. Looks like the 80s XL125, my first bike.

We fly in Macau, but might need to go to Hong Kong for the visa, trying to figure that out. Any suggestions for a attractive, or at least inexpensive town/city to stay nearby for some days while we get the bike and get set up for the trip? Really don't have much idea how China works. Don't speak any Mandarin unfortunately.

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If you can fly into HK and the you can get to Hainan no need visa ! You can get a VOA but check to see if your home country in on the list for VOA first ! but must fly out of HK , now the visa you get for Hainan is valid for the mainland as well but only
For 15 days . In Hainan you have many choices for bike shops well that my 2 cents

Good luck

This doesn't look bad: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=37614288758

And the Shineray equivilent? http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=37352166966

It's a bit confusing. What brands should I be looking for? Jialing, Shineray, Zongshen.. I have seen these names before. Just not enough time now to become an expert on everything that's on offer in China.

All good advice, so far but no one has mentioned the obvious, how do you plan to get on with the PRC DL?

@prince666 Cunning! But, my wife has a Hungarian passport only, and isn't eligible for a VOA. Also 15 days isn't enough.

I know it's not permitted officially without special permits/guides, but would it be silly to try to drive into Tibet?

The impression I got with the PRC driving license is, you should have it, but it's sometimes forgiven not to have it as a foreigner, although you do risk getting into trouble. In that case I though I'd run the risk. Bad idea?

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

This doesn't look bad: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...id=37614288758

And the Shineray equivilent? [url]http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.0.0.LTaSmc&id

It's a bit confusing. What brands should I be looking for? Jialing, Shineray, Zongshen.. I have seen these names before. Just not enough time now to become an expert on everything that's on offer in China.

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You said it ! NO TIME you are leaving things a bit late David if you don't mind me saying so More planing should of gone into your trip if you don't mind me saying so , just get out here
And take a day as it comes I am sure all the pieces will fall into place

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

All good advice, so far but no one has mentioned the obvious, how do you plan to get on with the PRC DL?

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Good job my mate is not posting on this one Doc hehe

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

The impression I got with the PRC driving license is, you should have it, but it's sometimes forgiven not to have it as a foreigner, although you do risk getting into trouble. In that case I though I'd run the risk. Bad idea?

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Well sometimes, but more often than not things can go pear shaped pretty quick. Also when you are at the borders trying to exit PRC then there might be a major problem. Plus a MC shop/dealer may not be interested to help you get the plate, or else tell you a bunch of porkies... or else not appreciate what may lay in store for you as you head off into the wild blue... opps... grey smog polluted yonder. Only to rock up to a border or encounter an accident, or a traffic police check point.. only to discover that you are anything but riding legally. Might go your way might not...

Just a warning though, if you don't have a license and or the bike plated correctly or as you think, then you are open to all kinds of consequences, and since you are sounding as though you are doing this on a budget... some of the consequences might blow what little budget you have allowed.

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

The impression I got with the PRC driving license is, you should have it, but it's sometimes forgiven not to have it as a foreigner, although you do risk getting into trouble. In that case I though I'd run the risk. Bad idea?

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Sorry to say David your views about not having a Chinese DL is misconstrue no DL in no DL and
You can get 14 days in prison but you are over 21 if you have no road accident and you don't get stop at a police stop and you win the lotto with out buying a ticket you should be ok you get my point David remember china is a logic free zone !! As I have been told many times before

About Tibet ! No cost loads of money and takes a lot of time to
Arrange all the permits and guides

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

@prince666 Cunning! But, my wife has a Hungarian passport only, and isn't eligible for a VOA. Also 15 days isn't enough.

I know it's not permitted officially without special permits/guides, but would it be silly to try to drive into Tibet?

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Forget T!B3T... everyone foreign needs a guide and/or special permit even those of us with a visa living here with a PRC DL cannot just go off riding/driving there...

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

Forget T!B3T... everyone foreign needs a guide and/or special permit even those of us with a visa living here with a PRC DL cannot just go off riding/driving there...

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Well done Doc you have just had your 1500 post I notice things like that hehe
Is it your birthday soon as well !!

Yes, it's last minute, that's for sure. There's a tight budget, but we've been travelling on a shoe-string for months. We've got some cash in reserve, should it be needed.

Perhaps I'm biting off more than I can chew, especially without speaking Chinese. We can always scrap the China motorbike plan, enjoy SW China with public transport, and then pick up a Dnepr/Ural/Jawa/Izh etc. in Kyrgyzstan for a few hundred dollars, and have fun getting that home.

"Also when you are at the borders trying to exit PRC then there might be a major problem. " - Yes, that does sound like it could be a problem. Did you mean because of the license, or the bike not being registered in my name on the documents (or both? :-)

I will try to find some more information on the likelihood of getting across China and into Kyrgyzstan without any major problems. It's very difficult to judge though just surfing the net though.

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

Yes, it's last minute, that's for sure. There's a tight budget, but we've been travelling on a shoe-string for months. We've got some cash in reserve, should it be needed.

Perhaps I'm biting off more than I can chew, especially without speaking Chinese. We can always scrap the China motorbike plan, enjoy SW China with public transport, and then pick up a Dnepr/Ural/Jawa/Izh etc. in Kyrgyzstan for a few hundred dollars, and have fun getting that home.

"Also when you are at the borders trying to exit PRC then there might be a major problem. " - Yes, that does sound like it could be a problem. Did you mean because of the license, or the bike not being registered in my name on the documents (or both? :-)

I will try to find some more information on the likelihood of getting across China and into Kyrgyzstan without any major problems. It's very difficult to judge though just surfing the net though.

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Both... if you have a bike plated legally in another persons name you have to have a letter giving you approval/authority to ride the bike and take it out of the country. If you have a Waide plate or some such then this document aint worth anything... the bike stays! If you don't have a PRC DL then you might not be allowed to leave the country on it for obvious reasons. It's the DL that you really need to square away first IMO. Your time frame and budget are your next major obstacles to say nothing of the challenge and pure frustration you might/will have... with language. You need to have some idea of some simple vocabulary. If you have not already, you should be reading www.thegreatrideofchina.com

Might be better to use this trip as a scoping trip to work out for next time?

Sounds promising, I will look into it:

http://www.yabroad.com/i/10437/how-t...ense-in-china/

..It is not difficult to get a temporary driver's license in China, in case you already have a driver's license. Note though, you will need an international driver's permit along with your national permit. It's not enough to bring only your driver's license to the traffic police. So remember to get an international driver's permit from your home country as well and bring it to China.

Generally you can go directly to the traffic police department in your city with your documents and application form, and the police officers will issue you a provisional driver's license after you do a health check. If you are tired of going to the traffic police again and again you can ask an agent to do it for you...

I'm to Manila now to be there when the embassy opens in the morning, perhaps we can get the visa here, and save some time/expense in Macau. Have done all the forms/flights/hotel bookings etc. this afternoon. Thanks again for info.

Maybe the temporary driver's license can be the solution, and it can all be legal. I've taken a truck-drivers license in Minsk (Belarus), so I've got an idea about soviet-inspired bureaucracy. The health check took two days being sent round a hospital with handfuls of receipts and other papers, all whilst being scolded for not knowing precisely how things are done. In China we would need to find a friend to help us, I think we will though.

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

Sounds promising, I will look into it:

http://www.yabroad.com/i/10437/how-t...ense-in-china/

..It is not difficult to get a temporary driver's license in China, in case you already have a driver's license. Note though, you will need an international driver's permit along with your national permit. It's not enough to bring only your driver's license to the traffic police. So remember to get an international driver's permit from your home country as well and bring it to China.

Generally you can go directly to the traffic police department in your city with your documents and application form, and the police officers will issue you a provisional driver's license after you do a health check. If you are tired of going to the traffic police again and again you can ask an agent to do it for you...

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:lol8::lol8::lol8:
Sorry David don't be leave all that you read on websites it took me 3 years to get a Chinese DL for most province you need a 6 month visa but some province you can do the test with a 3 month visa then you need a address in china sometimes you can use your hotel address or a friends address but as the website mention it could take 2/3 months to sort out . With all this sorted out you need to pass the test need 90 out of a 100 to pass took me 3 times to pass heheh but download a app called "Drive in China" and have a go not easy !!! TIC (This is China)

Well good luck and keep posting to how you get on many people would be interested to hear

First, check about visa issuance in Hong Kong (HK). Email some visa agents and see if they can help. Recently, HK has tightened up considerably and requires non-HK residents to acquire their China visa in their home countries. Only restricted visas for parts of Guangdong (as a tour) or Hainan are available in HK.

Second, temporary licenses are virtually worthless. Nobody is really sure why the government even bothers. They are ONLY valid for rental cars, from approved rental agencies, and can only be driven within the city that issues them. (EDIT - oh yeah, and most of those "approved" rental agencies will not rent to a foreigner - I think it is designed for overseas Chinese coming back home to the motherland). A very few motorcycle tour companies can get temporary driving licenses on pre-arranged tour routes for restricted periods of time.

Third, this topic has been discussed ad naseum in this forum. It seems everyone wants to come to China and ride a motorcycle. Given your parameters, you have one option - to do it completely illegally, but even that won't work. Aside from the Driving License issue (you won't get the proper one), you have the issue of bike registration and insurance. Because you will undoubtedly not meet the residency requirement for vehicle registration, you will need to register the bike in some Chinese person's name (I assume you don't know anyone). And as far as getting the bike out of the country - it won't happen, either because you are on an illegal bike, or because it is registered in someone else's name and you don't have the "proper" permission letter.

Listen to Bikerdoc ... use this as the beginning of a learning experience for your next visit.

Good luck.

PS: By the way, Macau is not as inexpensive as it used to be, relative to HK, subsequent to the big casinos moving into town.

Thanks for the info on the temporary licenses. Is it certain this is a dead-end then?

I don't see why the bike registration and insurance should be a major problem though, given we find someone to register the bikes name in, or buy a used bike, as far as I understand. It's the license that seems to be the kicker.

I'm not sure we'd be in a better situation if we returned next time, the license would still be the problem unless we had residence status?

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

Thanks for the info on the temporary licenses. Is it certain this is a dead-end then?

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Yes, they are worthless - and not available for motorcycles (except, as noted, on a very few pre-arranged tours).

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

I don't see why the bike registration and insurance should be a major problem though, given we find someone to register the bikes name in, or buy a used bike, as far as I understand. It's the license that seems to be the kicker.

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OK, if you are buying used ... maybe. Maybe, just maybe, you can get the bike out of the country because you have the perfect permission letter, written in Chinese, that will satisfy the Chinese exit-border-guards. But I don't think that Chinese letter will do you much good in the next country, or the one after that, etc., etc., etc.

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

I'm not sure we'd be in a better situation if we returned next time, the license would still be the problem unless we had residence status?

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Sad, but true. You are definitely NOT the first person whose dream of riding across China has been stomped on by the rules of China. There are, however, a few who have successfully thrown caution to the wind, and just done it completely illegally. Usually, though, we don't hear about the unsuccessful ones - they tend to be quiet about acquiring a new boyfriend in a Chinese prison.

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because you have the perfect permission letter, written in Chinese, that will satisfy the Chinese exit-border-guards. But I don't think that Chinese letter will do you much good in the next country, or the one after that, etc., etc., etc.

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Hi Lao Jia Hou

Please may I ask why do you think you could have a problem with other country border crossing Even if you have a letter of permission from the owner to take the bike out of China !
The reson I ask it that I am very soon doing that ! Taking "my" bike, but is in my wife name out of china and into Laos / Thailand I will have a letter from my wife giving permission to leave china with the bike , the letter is in chineses and English . For the life of me I can't think why other border crossing would ask to see the letter , not unless there can read Chinese and see from the blue book it is not in my name !! I could be wronge I hope I am not ! Your thinking behind your point would be helpfull in my up and coming trip

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Originally Posted by davidzweig

Thanks for the info on the temporary licenses. Is it certain this is a dead-end then?

I don't see why the bike registration and insurance should be a major problem though, given we find someone to register the bikes name in, or buy a used bike, as far as I understand. It's the license that seems to be the kicker.

I'm not sure we'd be in a better situation if we returned next time, the license would still be the problem unless we had residence status?

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Hi dave
You only need to have a 3/6 month visa with a address in china which could be a hotel !! And you have reported to the PSB. With all the correct translated docurment you can take the test it's not hard but does take a bit of time to sort out , now if you pass the test you should get a 5 year DL so your dreams to ride in china can be over the next 5 years

The hard part if the province you decide to sit the test requires you to have a 6 month !

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Originally Posted by prince666

Hi Lao Jia Hou

Please may I ask why do you think you could have a problem with other country border crossing Even if you have a letter of permission from the owner to take the bike out of China !
The reson I ask it that I am very soon doing that ! Taking "my" bike, but is in my wife name out of china and into Laos / Thailand I will have a letter from my wife giving permission to leave china with the bike , the letter is in chineses and English . For the life of me I can't think why other border crossing would ask to see the letter , not unless there can read Chinese and see from the blue book it is not in my name !! I could be wronge I hope I am not ! Your thinking behind your point would be helpfull in my up and coming trip

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Laos/Thailand (and Cambodia) aren't really a problem, especially if you have the proper permission letter also written in English, copies of her ID Card, etc. Those borders are comparatively easy crossings, with many travelers on bike and in cars doing it every day. In fact, I know that many illegal bikes with fake paperwork commonly cross.

Mongolia is also doable, at predetermined crossings, although the Mongolian Embassy strongly recommends that one has an "official translation" of each of the registration documents and permission letter (done by the Embassy, of course, for $50 US per document).

Where it gets tricky is when you get further afield. Speaking from experience, border guards have tremendous discretion - if they want to make your life difficult, because they had a fight with their wife, or because they didn't get their coffee break, they will.

There are reports over on HUBB about people getting stranded in no-man's land (that common stretch of a km, or two found between many border crossings), where the entering country said "nope, can't come in" and the exiting country saying "nope, can't come back". I can't recall which forum/blog I read it on, but two Chinese bikes heading into Mongolia were caught in this mess, and they were forced to sell their bikes to the "kind & considerate" border guards who offered them 10 cents on the dollar.

Then again, other crossing reports say "they didn't even ask to see my DL or registration".