JH600 stalling

**MJH** · 12-27-2011, 06:26 AM

It is pretty safe to say that Jialing is conservative, read this article to get an idea how that motorcycle will be received in a global market…but only imagine that as way worse.

It is pretty safe to say the target market is one that is starving for an affordable option, then hopefully in that they will fall all over themselves for the lower price. Then only subsequently only expect to be treated like a red headed step child there after. . That would be my honest perception of the potential status of the JH600 in any market with consideration to it real actual current marketability.

It obviously has to be technically supported and ideally it should be very reliable, if they can get it stable and keep it that way…then for the gods sake alter its appearance. I am sure some people can get past the looks, but when I see the advertisement that Jialing ran for the bike and hear a woman’s voice softly whispering “it is like a dream” I could only think one mans dream is another hundred thousands men’s nightmare.

My suggestion for a face lift….

I am grasping…seriously how desperate is any market for a lack luster affordable adventure bike? If it is looking for some appeal and that is what drives sales, then make it look like something that you would expect to see ridding through a desert….then it would be grand if it actually could.

**blazeafar** · 01-11-2012, 05:08 PM

It will be interesting to see what bike version rolls out the TRAXX door here in Brazil. I have not seen how much of the JH600 will be manufactured here but for sure it will not be 100%. So what parts will be shipped in, 2010, 2011 or 2012?

It does seem as if the people at TRAXX do have the right consept for after sales service. I would hope that would handle something like the stall issue differently than there Chinese counterparts.
TRAXX is expanding here in Brazil but slowly. There are only one or two dealers in the south part of the country at this time so if them want to caputre market in the south they will definetly need to have a service network. Not many folks here work on what the ride or drive.

**Bart Sanders** · 01-11-2012, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by 998S

I do not want to rule out that disconnecting the sensor is the solution, but I still miss the technical reasoning behind it.
You furhter might consider that if so, you might have a far larger problem inside your engine; the longer cam-chain will NOT get shorter by dis-connecting the sensor.

You failed to convince me so far....

Hi, sorry for answering so late in this important thread!

You are right! Indeed, the lengthening of the chain shifts the timing of the camshaft backwards compared to the ideal moment governed by the crankshaft/piston. It was my assumption that this amount of lengthening could be neglected, but as said here clearly by Euphonius the ECU's software goes a long way in trying to compansate for these mechanically induced errors. So, I learned that it may not be neglected.

Still, our June 2011 JH600 does not have the camshaft sensor anymore. It may have stalled 2 times in 2.000 km, but I guess more to the very lean mix setting. Will try to set it a bit richer coming spring and see what happens.

Anybody in this forum replaced an "old" chain and what happened to the stalling behaviour? (Did not yet read all posts following this one...)

**euphonius** · 01-12-2012, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by Bart Sanders

...
Still, our June 2011 JH600 does not have the camshaft sensor anymore. It may have stalled 2 times in 2.000 km, but I guess more to the very lean mix setting. Will try to set it a bit richer coming spring and see what happens.

Dear Bart,

Thanks for this post, but you've raised an important question in my mind: What is the method by which you plan to make the fuel mix richer? To my knowledge, the fuel mix is 100% controlled by the ECU. The ECU, as we've discussed ad nauseum, is not serviceable by the owner, or even by the dealer or certified service station, since no one has the calibration tool and/or software to do this. Some of us suspect that not even Jialing has these essential calibration tools due to some kind of unresolved differences with Bosch.

There is a screw on the side of the throttle body, but please please please do not confuse this with an idle controls screw. Mess with that screw and you will send your ECU into a fit of confusion and it will respond by seriously messing with your fuel/air mix. This has happened to several bikes here because local mechanics who have zero understanding of EFI have never seen a screw that they did not feel an obligation to turn. That adjuster on Motokai's bike was dialed back so that it no longer had any contact with the throttle valve, which then was getting stuck in the closed position. To our knowledge, that screw should never be adjusted, and is designed to stop the butterfly (throttle) valve a tiny 1-2 degrees short of full closure.

Now, given that you are driving toward dealer status in Europe, perhaps Jialing has come to its senses and provided for you a calibration tool with which you can perhaps make small adjustments and reset the ECU if necessary. That would be progress!

Good luck!

**MJH** · 01-12-2012, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by blazeafar

It will be interesting to see what bike version rolls out the TRAXX door here in Brazil. I have not seen how much of the JH600 will be manufactured here but for sure it will not be 100%. So what parts will be shipped in, 2010, 2011 or 2012?

It does seem as if the people at TRAXX do have the right consept for after sales service. I would hope that would handle something like the stall issue differently than there Chinese counterparts.
TRAXX is expanding here in Brazil but slowly. There are only one or two dealers in the south part of the country at this time so if them want to caputre market in the south they will definetly need to have a service network. Not many folks here work on what the ride or drive.

They look to have dealers all over the country...http://www.traxx.com.br/novotraxx/revendas

Since they are asking 5.599.00 R for the 135cc dual sport you can bet they expect to get more then twice that for the JH600

**blazeafar** · 01-12-2012, 10:47 AM

Have not seen that part of the site for a while, seem thay have added a few here in the south. Problem is that are still a minium of 2 or 3 hours away.
I have seen somewhere the target price was well above 20,000 R (11,000 USD).
Prices here SUCK! The Occupy whatever groups need to come here if they want to protest greed. Starts with the guberment and works down from there.

**MJH** · 01-12-2012, 04:30 PM

Then the JH600 would be way cheaper then a Honda Transalp in every respect. It is hard to believe that people of Brazil are able to pay close to $5,000.00 for a Honda NXR150!

So here comes Traxx and their units do have to be at least assembled in Brazil so Traxx will pay assemblers what then $350.00 a month? If Traxx can offer a Brazilian minimum wages then they likely will. So you have a factory labor rate in China of $200.00 a month and an assembly rate of what in Brazil $350.00 a month, the parts have shipping costs and are taxed on import as well. Since the imported part have to be taxed and so does the labor and profits, it all should be public information, but surely it is not.

The quality of the parts are and will be as good as you get when you pay people peanuts to make them, that also holds true for the assembly and if the parts are cheaply made and they are, then the result are a marginally less expensive inferior product to the existing ridiculously expensive ones.

They probably are not paying minimum wages in Brazil in manufacturing, however, I wonder how much the cheapo Chinese are willing to pay for labor in Brazil? In other words why are they so costly, it is because once any economy incurs ridiculously high inflation, the greedy people refuse to ever take a cut to get it back down. You can call that the hurray for me and screw everyone else rule, consider asking a fat person to share their food or better yet try to convince them to just eat a little less. They will not and will get real defensive if you confront them on it.

**blazeafar** · 01-13-2012, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by MJH

Then the JH600 would be way cheaper then a Honda Transalp in every respect. It is hard to believe that people of Brazil are able to pay close to $5,000.00 for a Honda NXR150!

So here comes Traxx and their units do have to be at least assembled in Brazil so Traxx will pay assemblers what then $350.00 a month? If Traxx can offer a Brazilian minimum wages then they likely will. So you have a factory labor rate in China of $200.00 a month and an assembly rate of what in Brazil $350.00 a month, the parts have shipping costs and are taxed on import as well. Since the imported part have to be taxed and so does the labor and profits, it all should be public information, but surely it is not.

The quality of the parts are and will be as good as you get when you pay people peanuts to make them, that also holds true for the assembly and if the parts are cheaply made and they are, then the result are a marginally less expensive inferior product to the existing ridiculously expensive ones.

They probably are not paying minimum wages in Brazil in manufacturing, however, I wonder how much the cheapo Chinese are willing to pay for labor in Brazil? In other words why are they so costly, it is because once any economy incurs ridiculously high inflation, the greedy people refuse to ever take a cut to get it back down. You can call that the hurray for me and screw everyone else rule, consider asking a fat person to share their food or better yet try to convince them to just eat a little less. They will not and will get real defensive if you confront them on it.

Hey MJH, you the same fellow posting on one of the Brasilan bike forums?

I can not say what might be happening in Manuas as far as labor wages but here in the south they are on the rise for industral labor due to a labor shortage.
As to the import taxes (OUTRAGOUS) 60 to 120%, with a discount for item assembled here and a bigger discount if 60% of the item in fabbed here.
Also, the over inflated price of imported products due to the import taxes drives the greed. Example: the same ITEM A above competes with a Brazilian produced product. The imported produce see good sales even with it being OVERPRICED, the price for the local produced product will be priced somewhat below the imported product (even though the product quality is no where near the same) and way above what it should cost based on local labor, fabrication and material cost. So, again where is the extra profit going?

So it boils down to this, the top 1% (who can afford to pay the high price for quality products) prey on the rest who are forced to pay inflated prices (on inferior local produced products) for what they can't afford!

**MJH** · 01-13-2012, 03:15 PM

Yes, I did post on one of the forums, basically because Jialing left their JH600 owners in a bad place with their bikes. They basically used them as guinea pigs, testing the EFI and then letting the warranty expire before the problems they have with the bikes ever were resolved. Maybe they believe in a world of big numbers a few causalities will not get noticed? Its not right!