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  1. #11 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    Yes Damo, this thread is a real worry. This is the problem with China, one successful trip across it can make someone believe that there are is some kind of predictable outcome for every trip. China is an odd place, you can be beaten or even killed for being a foreigner or other times loved and treated incredibly well. The things you did had zero to do with the way you were treated, those attitudes all reside within the heads of the locals you meet, their potential behavior is unfathomable to everyone including them.

    There is no logic to travelling in China, it's hard to understand from a logical western point of view. For example, if I drop sodium into water it will explode, if you do it it will explode too, if anyone else does it, the same result will occur. Travelling across China absolutely does not work like that, each trip could have a wildly outcome, like a different experiment each time.
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  2. #12 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    "C’mon! We saw a Tibetan Mastiff outside a Tibetan temple!."
    Last edited by bigdamo; 02-28-2015 at 09:40 PM.
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  3. #13 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    C-Moto Noob
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    Hey everyone,

    It's Laura here, the author of the blog posts which have seemingly been torn to shred here on this thread ;)
    While you've all been rather busy doing that, my partner and I have found yet another agency willing to help overlanders (with any vehicle) cross through China independently and without a guide.
    We met Hendrick, the gentleman who runs Tibetmoto, a couple of months ago in Lao and he was quite interested in trying to offer the same deal as ChinaTierradeAvventura. Here are their prices:


    Costs for motorcycles (no guide):

    1 motorcycle (solo travel): 3.980, – EURO

    2 motorcycles: 2.150, – EURO per motorcycle

    3 motorcycles: 1.580, – EURO per motorcycle

    4 motorcycles: 1.355, – EURO per motorcycle

    Costs for larger groups upon request! We will gladly assist you in the search for additional participants

    Rest of info on my this blog post (I do this to facilitate sharing of info on various forums)
    http://laurastraveltales.com/travel-...-china-take-2/

    As for me, I never once claimed that anything about this process would be predictable or easy...it was meant to be an incentive to anyone who is genuinely interested in crossing China independently, to roll up their sleeves, put in some work and sort something out for themselves. it took me 18 months to secure my deal, yet others simply expect it to be served on a silver platter.
    So...while countless overlanders have been moaning, complaining and criticising, we found yet ANOTHER alternative.
    In the end, as always, our aim is to facilitate overland travel for everyone. We are all just one big family and if we don't help each other out and share info...then we're missing the whole point.
    I wish you all happy, exciting and most of all safe riding.
    Cheers
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  4. #14 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    What happened to Ricard

    "No matter what anyone says (including me!) the only person you should only ever listen to is Ricard. If he says that, for whatever reason, you MUST be escorted by a guide for a particular stretch, then don’t fight the man…but trust him. He’s the only one who knows what’s going on at the time of your crossing and, most importantly, you should know that he has your best interest at heart. All he wants to do is help out fellow overlanders. We all know that every now and then, when travelling, one comes across a pure gem, one of those rare, genuine human beings who just want to help others. Ricard is one of those people. Just trust."

    Actually I be wary of listening to Ricard he is getting another company to get you in and out of China. I can organise people to maybe get you through the big X can't guarantee that is going to happen all depends on what is going down there at the time.

    Copping abit of heat over your friend "Ricard "charges on other forums. At least be up front how much Ricard charged you.As one other person said $33K is abit steep. But that is about the norm despite what your new found Laos/German friend says.

    Ricard by any chance also likes the $$$$$$.

    OH by the way Laura "As for me, I never once claimed that anything about this process would be predictable or easy"

    yeh you did telling one Chinese tour operator

    "If our permits distinctly stated that we could drive independently (hence, no guide needed), then surely you can also organise that for others."

    after then saying

    "Yes I understand the whole concept of 'responsibility' in China. Just last year an agent went to jail because he rented a motorbike to a foreigner without the proper paperwork. The foreigner had an accident and perished, and the agent was held responsible. I understand this onus of responsibility is probably the biggest hurdle to get over, yet I believe that if you go through the right channels the risk is severely diminished."

    Gee don't you might think some "agents" are a touch nervous not because of this but many others foreigners coming to China and paying their big or small money and seeing their guests getting into conflict(ain't hard to do) with the locals.

    Welcome to the forums Laura suggest you read some of the posts here. There is a wealth of knowledge from people on here about riding in China but I'll give you the gist of it. It is getting harder not easier to ride in China much to the disdain of most people on this forum.
    Last edited by bigdamo; 03-22-2015 at 01:25 PM.
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  5. #15 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    KING of MCM LOL prince666's Avatar
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    Was you not the guy Bigdamo last year when someone posted about a tie up between CFMotor and KTM in China you said "No Way" and you accuse the guy of talking out of his asshole !!
    You must look a fool now mate !! So why should I believe anything you say! IMO

    Nuff said.............
    "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded"
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  6. #16 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    C-Moto Noob
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    Hello bigdamo,

    We paid 2000 euros each per bike, travelling in a group of 3, crossing into China from the Kyrgyz border and out into Lao 60 days later. All done by Ricard. The price was cheaper than offered by anyone else. TIBETMOTO is offering a yet cheaper option still.
    But it matters not, does it? It doesn't matter what I paid in August 2014...all that matters is what YOU would paid if YOU were interested in crossing China at whatever specific time. Except perhaps you're not. You seem well content to offer criticism but offer no constructive contributions which may help anyone who actually is intending to cross through China.

    The law is what it is. Not a single mention of a guide for any Chinese province except Tibet an Xinjiang. Telling a Chinese agent to up his game and look into the possibility of offering independent travel for foreigners does not, in any way, suggest it would be 'easy'
    I disagree wholeheartedly about China. It is and will continue to get easier for foreign overlanders to negotiate a crossing. At least as long as there are plenty of people who work their butts off trying to find a way in and out, legally. Those very same who then pass on any info they have to help others.
    If there are any foreigners getting into conflict with locals, it would be very much the foreigner's fault and problem. We encountered nothing but courteous, hospitable and lovely people, in each and every province. We behaved respectfully, of course, we were their guests after all.

    So...unless you are willing or interested in contributing in a positive manner, may I suggest you leave the info for those who are?
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  7. #17 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    I don't really want to defend Bigdamo, I don't agree with everything he said but I'll be honest......

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura73 View Post
    We paid 2000 euros each per bike, travelling in a group of 3, crossing into China from the Kyrgyz border and out into Lao 60 days later. All done by Ricard. The price was cheaper than offered by anyone else. TIBETMOTO is offering a yet cheaper option still.
    Fact is that 6000 euros is a great deal of money, even if it's cheaper than other companies. Chinese drivers can cross into other countries as they see fit, but others cannot drive in and out without tons of expense and red tape. This is one sided BS. If the government and companies keep making money out of this it is much less likely to ever end. As with ransom demands when you pay the hostage takers you set in motion the next hostage taking. My opinion and many others is it is better not to play this game at all.

    Maybe you feel you have been treated very well by Ricard, or maybe you do have some affiliation, or maybe you are just trying to inform other riders. mychinamoto.com isn't really the place as it consists largely of riders inside China and people who are discussing Chinese motorcycles. The HUBB would honestly be a better place. Posting this information is informative, but in all honesty the 'price list' goes a bit too far and looks like a paid ad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura73 View Post
    I disagree wholeheartedly about China. It is and will continue to get easier for foreign overlanders to negotiate a crossing. At least as long as there are plenty of people who work their butts off trying to find a way in and out, legally. Those very same who then pass on any info they have to help others.
    Hmm, things are getting easier? Maybe in regards to Myanmar, and other countries, but to suggest China too, really not sure about that. Even changing money, extending a driving license, selling or buying property, registering a motorcycle in your own name are all far harder for foreigners than for local Han Chinese in China. It's in fact a multi-tiered system where your ethnicity dictates your status, not legally so much as procedurally. Being Urgur, white, black or Tibetan will see things being easier or harder to do and give you different rights and status.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura73 View Post
    If there are any foreigners getting into conflict with locals, it would be very much the foreigner's fault and problem. We encountered nothing but courteous, hospitable and lovely people, in each and every province. We behaved respectfully, of course, we were their guests after all.
    In China you will absolutely meet courteous, hospitable and lovely people, in each and every province. This is the overwhelmingly the most likely thing that will happen. However you could be attacked beaten or killed in China. If you meet the wrong group or gang at the wrong time, it would be nothing that you've done. In fact it could be the behavior of another previous group of foreigners or other political fanaticism or other unknowable reason that can cause problems. I've had friends attacked in China for doing nothing wrong and not behaving badly. Thankfully it's very rare, but still worth bearing in mind.
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  8. #18 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    C-Moto Guru TexasAggie's Avatar
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    Thanks Bikerdoc and Laura73.
    I always find it very useful to hear others' experiences riding here in the middle kingdom. After 10 years here, I completely understand how things can change from day to day but agree that the more people do it, the easier it should become. I have definitely seen some things become easier for me. Please know many of us enjoyed your insight even if we have had differing experiences. This is what these forums were originally for and I am glad to see people trying to return to constructive input even if I do not agree. Non constructive input is basiclly whining or the result of bitterness that is sad. I put this non constructive input into the appropriate file as I know many others do. Again, thanks for the input as it can never hurt to hear how others have successfully accomplished things here in China.
    DT
    Keeping the rubber side down.....most of the time.
    Nanjing wheels:BMW F800GS / Texas wheels:BMW R1200GSA & 70' Bultaco El Bandido
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  9. #19 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    KING of MCM LOL prince666's Avatar
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    mychinamoto.com isn't really the place as it consists largely of riders inside China and people who are discussing Chinese motorcycles. The HUBB would honestly be a better place. Posting this information is informative, but in all honesty the 'price list' goes a bit too far and looks like a paid ad.
    Sorry but I total disagree with you on this point MCM is about chinses bike and riding in China and or how to do it so the thread IMO is very appropriate to people reading post on MCM
    "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded"
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  10. #20 Re: How to Ride/Drive Ones Foriegned Owned Motorcycle/Vehicle through China 
    C-Moto Noob
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    Hi everyone,

    First of all...no, I am not 'affiliated' with any agency at all, I'm just a long term traveller (11 years on the road and counting) who appreciates receiving info/tips along the way, so I simply pay it forward. That's all. I was not the one who originally posted the China crossing info on this page, but was alerted to it by a fellow traveller and wished to set the record straight. If anyone finds the info useful...GREAT!!...if not, let it die in your forum thread bin.
    I could start rebutting claims or stating (for the 1,000th time) that the Chinese government is the one who sets payment for permits yadda yadda yadda...6000 euros is a lot of money for three bikes but STILL cheaper than it used to be blah blah blah
    But I'm done here.
    You have the info, do with it what you will.
    i wish you all very safe and happy travels, as always.
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