What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?

[Mot]

Like the titles says... What’s better for me than YBR250/YS250?

I am a novice rider, but have logged lots of track time in fast cars ranging from sport compacts to exotics. Good handling, braking, and high power to weight are important me. Honestly, the YBR250/YS250 appears weak in this regard.

Bike must be reliable. I am good with a wrench, but I don’t want a bike that presupposes that fact. Wrenching should be limited to maintenance, adjustment, and upgrades, not major repair.

I want to buy enough bike and buy once. I hate selling and horse trading. Regarding resale I would likely dispose of it after five years, might keep it, not sure.

I’d like to spend less than 20k RMB, I can easily spend 30k. You could talk me up 50k, but the bike would have really be something special across all my use cases to drop that kind of coin. I lean towards the value end of the spectrum.

My day-to-day riding will be 95% tarmac, a significant portion of which is in atrocious condition. The bike also needs to get me up the occasional interesting dirt path.

I definitely want to ride down through Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. (hopefully with some of you hooligans) I’d also like to tour two-up in the mountains out west Yunnan, Sichuan, Xinjiang, maybe a trek to Everest base camp.

I am 182cm (82 cm inseam) 85kg. Two-up touring would include a compact 60kg pillion plus bags.

What’s your opinion of the bikes below vs my needs? What other bikes I should consider?

KTM Duke 390	49,800 RMB	India [mfd], China [assemb]
Kawasaki Z300	40,900 RMB (Z250 ABS)	Thailand
Honda CB300F	34,980 RMB (CBR300R)	Thailand
Suzuki GW250	23,880 – 25,880 RMB	China, Haojue JV
Yamaha YS250	19,800 RMB	China, Jianshe JV
Honda CBF190	14,800 RMB	China, Sundiro JV

I purposefully left off Benelli as they seem to have problems inconsistent with my reliability requirement. I have my concerns about KTM as well.

[Asymptomatic]

Interesting list, here are my thoughts.

The Honda CBF190r seems a little weak. It has less HP then the CB150RR.

The Yamaha YS250 has terrible power output for a 250cc bike. All that weight and very little benefit other then reliability.

The Suzuki is in the same boat as the yamaha in my opinion. Neither have the best power to weight ratios and both bikes look like they were designed in the 90's.

Your other bikes were out of my price range so I never considered them. I also considered a Benelli but after the atrocious reviews on quality I got cold feet.

I am down to two choices (unless someone gives me better options).

The KTM Duke 200. It has more HP and Torque then most of the 250's and is incredibly light. It tops out at 137kph due to a speed limiter not rev limiter but has great acceleration and seems like a great bike for city fun, occasional trips and canyon riding. 29800 rmb

The Kawasaki Z250SL. It is a little more powerful then the duke and a little heavier as well. It tops out at 161kph. However it is likely more reliable than the KTM. Seems like a well rounded bike though. 29800 rmb

Both are naked bikes with up right seating positions and are super light and nimble. Let me know what your thoughts are. I ride a off brand factory Chinese bike now and it is just not reliable in any way and I do not feel safe. I will be getting one of these two bikes within the next few weeks. Lots of user reviews and videos on these two bikes so I am fairly confident in my choices. I just have to make sure the Duke is 2015 as earlier models had a lot of problems that KTM recently sorted out. I find my self needing to push my bike into strange places to park it safely so I also like these options because they are so damn light.

I would consider other bikes but there seem to be very few in my price range with adequate power and reliability. I also would rather keep as much as possible in the bank. I hope my thoughts help and look forward to hearing what you have to say!

[Mot]

Interesting list, here are my thoughts.

The Honda CBF190r seems a little weak. It has less HP then the CB150RR.

The Yamaha YS250 has terrible power output for a 250cc bike. All that weight and very little benefit other then reliability.

The Suzuki is in the same boat as the yamaha in my opinion. Neither have the best power to weight ratios and both bikes look like they were designed in the 90's.

Your other bikes were out of my price range so I never considered them. I also considered a Benelli but after the atrocious reviews on quality I got cold feet.

I am down to two choices (unless someone gives me better options).

The KTM Duke 200. It has more HP and Torque then most of the 250's and is incredibly light. It tops out at 137kph due to a speed limiter not rev limiter but has great acceleration and seems like a great bike for city fun, occasional trips and canyon riding. 29800 rmb

The Kawasaki Z250SL. It is a little more powerful then the duke and a little heavier as well. It tops out at 161kph. However it is likely more reliable than the KTM. Seems like a well rounded bike though. 29800 rmb

Both are naked bikes with up right seating positions and are super light and nimble. Let me know what your thoughts are. I ride a off brand factory Chinese bike now and it is just not reliable in any way and I do not feel safe. I will be getting one of these two bikes within the next few weeks. Lots of user reviews and videos on these two bikes so I am fairly confident in my choices. I just have to make sure the Duke is 2015 as earlier models had a lot of problems that KTM recently sorted out. I find my self needing to push my bike into strange places to park it safely so I also like these options because they are so damn light.

I would consider other bikes but there seem to be very few in my price range with adequate power and reliability. I also would rather keep as much as possible in the bank. I hope my thoughts help and look forward to hearing what you have to say!

Asymptomatic? I hope its not contagious!

...and haven't you heard!? The 90's are back in fashion. It's the new retro!

Between the two, hands down the Z250SL. Especially for even money.

On the automotive side of things you'll often hear, there is no replacement for displacement. Meaning, for two given engines with a similar performance envelope, the larger displacement engine will be less stressed and have a broader torque curve. Other factors being equal, this translates to better longevity, lower heat dissipation, and faster lap times.

I have not seen a dyno plot of the KTM 200 motor, but I have seen plots comparing the outgoing Kawasaki Ninja 250 (same motor as Z250) to the new Ninja 300 and the Honda CBR250R to the new CBR300R. An extra 50cc makes a huge difference! (only 37cc in the Honda's case) I would say the KTM 200 can’t compete with the Kawa 250 anywhere except at the very peak of its output.

Regarding power to weight, the small advantage the KTM quickly narrows in the real world as you add in the weight of the fuel, pilot, pillion, bags, etc. Because the additional weight is significant relative to the bike's weight (i.e. The 16.5lb advantage shrinks as a percentage of the total loaded weight vs the dry weight)

I can’t speak to the difference in qualitative factors, handling, braking, and the like. I know the KTM has more advanced suspension, but I am not reading anything negative about the Kawasaki in this regard.

Neither has a great seat for your pillion, but not a lot does in this performance category.

Question: Is the Z250SL selling for 29,800 now? The Kawasaki China site shows 32,900.
Kawasaki Z250SL

[Asymptomatic]

Asymptomatic? I hope its not contagious!

...and haven't you heard!? The 90's are back in fashion. It's the new retro!

Question: Is the Z250SL selling for 29,800 now? The Kawasaki China site shows 32,900.
Kawasaki Z250SL

Yes the Kawasaki is selling for 28900 depending on the color scheme. Here is a taobao link. Yes, a million times I have heard the phrase "no replacement for displacement" The only reason I like the KTM is the wider profile and to me, it just looks a lot better. I am very partial to good looking things even if they are terrible. Just like women...

It is contagious, I will give it to you on our first ride. No worries!

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...ucket=2#detail

[Mot]

Yes, a million times I have heard the phrase "no replacement for displacement" The only reason I like the KTM is the wider profile and to me, it just looks a lot better. I am very partial to good looking things even if they are terrible. Just like women...

Haha, sounds like you don't need my advice . Go ride your slutty little KTM all over town!

The heart wants what the heart wants. Lather, rinse, repeat. Etc.

The hotter they are the more terrible things they can get away with.

But I digress...

More wisdom?

[ShuBen]

A (red/orange(?) and black) Kawa Z250L with ABS is in BJ about 38k RMB including tax, excl. plate

[ShuBen]

... and here still a teaser ....

a selection of bikes going anywhere:

Shineray X5 & X2
223ccm Jialing (blue)
QJ150cc (in the background)

[ShuBen]

Check Suzuki GW250 and I still recommend the Shinetay X2 with some mods (see the reports here in the forum)

[ShuBen]

I have my X2 now 5k km and its running well. But as u can see from my postings i have modified a number of things.
(Some are of course not necessary, but nice to have)
IMO the necessary mods cost u all in all 1000RMB.

In Thailand I have tried a CRF 250L and it is still another level over the X2, but u can't get it legal in China. So I went for the X2 ( about half price of a illegal CRF)

If I could get a legal CRF I would pay the difference.
Consider that between the CRF engine and the NX250 copy of the X2 lay about 20years

[Asymptomatic]

I have my X2 now 5k km and its running well. But as u can see from my postings i have modified a number of things.
(Some are of course not necessary, but nice to have)
IMO the necessary mods cost u all in all 1000RMB.

In Thailand I have tried a CRF 250L and it is still another level over the X2, but u can't get it legal in China. So I went for the X2 ( about half price of a illegal CRF)

If I could get a legal CRF I would pay the difference.
Consider that between the CRF engine and the NX250 copy of the X2 lay about 20years

What about the CRF250M (Not L)? I see it for sale all over. Are they all illegal as well? I really like this supermoto version of it.

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