JH600 stalling

[euphonius]

Thanks TD.

I don't think we need anything formal. By "authoritative" I mean that the translation captures the technical details clearly so that Jialing's engineers understand Eric's Problem - Analysis - Conclusion - Solution ....

I think you could be very good for this.

EFI technicalities are beyond my pay grade!

cheers

[998S]

Is there anyone who ever heard how the Chinese police and army coop with these stalling issues?

[MotoKai]

Is there anyone who ever heard how the Chinese police and army coop with these stalling issues?

I haven't specifically heard comments from the police/military. I confess to being quite insular here on MCM - as this is an English language forum and MOST OF THE CHINESE MOTORCYCLISTS ARE ELSEWHERE. I do read Chinese, but don't often frequent the Chinese language moto sites as it's quite arduous for me. Motorcyling is my hobby, I don't want it to feel like work.

With that said, I have found many of the problems that we've been discussing across the Chinese internet. Which means none of this is/should be new to Jialing. A big thanks to Milton who often shares some of these great finds with us in English here on MCM.

For those who read Chinese or for those who are just interested...click here to find the plethora of JH600 Stall issue postings. (Click the TRANSLATE button in your browser for the rough idea if you don't read Chinese).

[milton]

I don't know how authoritative my Chinese writing is, but I thought I'd give it a try. I also utilized the official Jialing forum to fire up my post at:
http://www.jialing.so/bbs/forum.php?...thread&tid=349

Right after my posting this morning, I was pleasantly surprised by Jialing's speedy reply, just short of acknowledging the problem:
尊敬的楼主：
你的情况，我们在昨天已经获知。相关情况我们正与技术部门进行沟通！
同时，非常感谢你对嘉陵600的关爱！有什么情况我们会第一时间同上海服务
站一起给予沟通、解决。

Translation:
Dear poster, your situation has already been reported since yesterday. We are communicating with the technical department about those reported issues. We appreciate your love and concern for JH600. You will let you know as soon as we hear anything regarding the resolution of the problem.

Apparently our Shanghai rep Mr. Liu made some contacts yesterday already. In my post I just summed up the technical problems and Eric's diagnosis. I also made the request for access to Jialing's ecu program.

My post in Chinese (don't ask me to translate it):



首先介绍一下我自己：我是一美籍华人，热爱摩托旅游，在美国有一辆玛格纳750，在中国，先骑了几年GN2 50，在2010年，经过一段时间观察后，买了JH600。当初有点犹豫，最主要的顾虑是JH600的熄火 问题。后来想想，这车已经有个3，4年的历史了，加上军方的大量采用，熄火问题应该已经稳定或解决了，再加 上上海JH600“代表”刘志东说，大多数单杠大排都多多少少会熄火，并且2010年底会更新，所以就下手 了。

现在已经跑了将近一万九千公里了，对它的性能颇为满意，也骑了它长途旅游过几回。
JH600在上海的外籍人士里蛮流行的，我经常与老外外同行。我的游记通常发在一个英文网站：http://www.mychinamoto.com
（ 上去搜索一下，我的用户名也是milton）. 我也偶尔在摩托迷网上发些帖子。

JH600的熄火问题一直是个阴影。车子新的时候，偶尔熄一下还可忍受，但过了五六千公里后，变本加厉，开 始有严重熄火现象。熄火的场景，大家都知道，比方启动，3档换2档，或在等红灯时怠速，最糟时，短短10公 里路，要熄二三十次。后来把发动机头上的降压阀（Decompression
valve）修了下，又好了。最近又开始了，到处熄火。这个问题并不罕见，所有的上海老中老外都有同样的不 愉快经验。这个熄火最大的问题是：它还是一个安全问题。多次在它熄火时，差点没给后头的汽车撞上，以我们老 外的质量标准来看，这个车在国外，至少在美国，是无法发行的。就是发行的了，也会诉讼不断，绝 对无法存活。

最可惜的是，除了这个熄火的问题外，JH600是一部很叫人喜欢的摩托，也是在国产大排量国产的市场中少数 的选择之一。有位北京的老外，本来准备买十辆JH600B组织一个旅游团生意的，他本人也拥有JH600与 JH600B各一台，但最近取消了这个计划，就是因为熄火问题。当初我JH600刚到手时，我在摩托迷网上 也发过帖子，讲述我的骑行经验。大量摩托迷会经常问我有关JH600的问题，尤其是熄火问题，我现在真还不 知如何回答了。我可以下断语，因为这个问题，嘉陵损失了不少生意。

我们这群老外，最有挫折感的是，与嘉陵厂家似乎无法沟通。这么严重的安全问题，在美国绝对是一个召回的理由 ，但在中国，好像与厂家无法直接沟通。

要知道，在中国的老外群，也是卧虎藏龙的社区。在上海有这么几两位摩托专家，自己装配维修保养自己的跑车， 是上海F1 的常客。对ECU经验与了解甚深，有自己的ECU电脑程式，可惜通通在JH600上不兼容用不着。我的JH 600在这位专家那让他测试了一个星期了，他的诊断是，嘉陵ECU程式里可能有一个
bug，在有些状况下，如转速低于1700rpm时怠速，就会熄火（如3档降2档，或2，3或空挡不加油怠 速过一阵时间， 或第一次冷车启动必熄火至少一次）。熄火的原因是因为在那个状况下，燃料混合比太低。如可针对此状况，作适 当ECU map图的修改，在map局部把混合比增高，问题可能迎刃而解。（为了验证这个假设，我们把进气口部分挡住 ，以强迫增加混合比，试了多次，重此无熄火现象。当然这样严重影响动力，不是解决办法）增加混合比也许会影 响环保标准，或增加油耗，但那些都是对现有用户来讲较小的问题，安全第一啊。要作这个修改，希望嘉陵把JH 600的ECU map公开，或让专家有一个版本可修改或作实验。这些请求，都是热爱JH600用户的要求，希望能与厂家一 起把问题解决掉。当然还有其它多种可能引起熄火的原因，但这个ECU程式里面的bug是最最基础的问题，它 导致整辆车油喷系统的误差幅度降低（margin of error ），导致至此系统高度不可靠。

我在动笔写这个帖子时，有些中国朋友直截了当的对我说，没有用的。但这种“宿命论”我们老外不太愿意接受。 我是热爱JH600的嘉陵客户，希望JH600成功，希望有更多的JH600同志与爱好者可以同游。我老是 说，这个JH600如果没有熄火的问题，是一辆很好的摩托。这也是我们所有老外的一致评价。要知道我们老外 的世界观应该还算上乘，给这个评价很不容易，希望嘉陵继续努力。如嘉陵厂重视此事，要帮忙解决这个安全问题 ，请联络我或我们老外社区。

[euphonius]

Another stroke of genius by brother Milton! I didn't realize they even had a corporate BBS. Too bad the author of the response is masked; still no one who can become a point of contact and be held accountable, but it's a fantastic start.

Did LZD just send Eric's post in English to Jialing, or perhaps he just rang Jialing to say, "The natives (and non-natives) are restless"...

I've emailed the jialing.so link and the text of Milton's post to LZD and Zhang Haitao in Beijing.

Great work, Milton!

[998S]

You also might consider to post the same on the popular Chinese websides, or even the Brazilian ones ... the more publicity the better.
Just be sure Jialing knows about it ;)

I had an other brilliant idea last night, waiting for some answers from Dr. Ciu ...
Just hope it was not a dream only ....

[MotoKai]

After the call Jeff & I had with LZD yesterday, he did contact Jialing. And as seen by Milton's posting Jialing has confirmed this (Good news!).
Also, LZD requested that my bike be sent to Dr. Cui - which I dropped off last night. Apparently Cui will be guided by input from LZD starting today.
(Eric - Did you contact Cui? If so, please send me a PM or post here what you shared. Thanks!)

Reminder: On Sunday my JH600 had 18 stalls for the first 50+ kms, then had no major issues on the last 50kms back into Shanghai.

As with LJH, I'll keep everyone informed on what surgery takes place on my machine.

And for those looking to read an English translation of Milton's post, here is the [rough] translation courtesy of Google:
First about myself: I am a Chinese American, love motorcycle travel, there is a Magna 750 in the United States, in China, the first ride a few years GN2 50, 2010, after a period of observation, bought JH600 . Had a little hesitation, the main concern is JH600 stalling problem. Then think about it, this motorcycle has a 3,4-year history, with the military's extensive use, turn off the problem should have been stable or resolved, together with Shanghai JH600 "representing" Liu Zhidong said that most of the large horizontal bar row are more or less will turn off, and the end of 2010 will be updated, so start a.

Has now been running for nearly nineteen thousand kilometers, and its performance is quite satisfactory, and ride it back a few long-distance travel.
JH600 expatriates in Shanghai in the very popular, I often foreigners and foreign counterparts. I travel often made in an English Web site: http://www.mychinamoto.com
(Up the search, my user name is milton). I also occasionally made some posts online motorcycle fans.

JH600 The problem has always been a turn off shadows. The motorcycle when it was new, and occasionally put out what can be endured, but after five or six thousand kilometers, intensified, began a serious turn off phenomenon. Turn off the scene, we all know, for example, started 3-for-2 file file, or when idling at a red light, the worst time, just 10 kilometers, put out two to thirty times. Later, the head of the pressure relief valve engine (Decompression
valve) repair, the sound of. Recently started, turn off everywhere. This problem is not uncommon, in all of Shanghai's old foreigner has the same unpleasant experience. The biggest problem is the stall: it is a security issue. Many times when it stalled, almost hit the car behind did not give to our quality standards foreigners, the car in a foreign country, at least in the United States, can not be issued. Is issued, and will be lawsuits and absolutely can not survive.

It is most unfortunate, in addition to the extinction of the problems, JH600 is a very Jiaoren like the motorcycle, but also a large displacement in the domestic market made one of the few choices. There was a foreigner in Beijing, originally intended to buy ten JH600B organize a tour business, he also has JH600 with JH600B each one, but recently canceled the project is stalled because of the problem. When I first came to hand JH600 when motorcycle fans I have posted messages online, about my riding experience. A large number of motorcycle fans will often ask me the question about JH600, especially stall issue, I really still do not know how to answer. I could under the broken language, because of this problem, Jialing lost a lot of business.

Our group of foreigners, the most frustration is that the manufacturers can not seem to communicate with the Jialing. Such a serious security problem in the United States is definitely a reason for the recall, but in China, as if unable to communicate directly with manufacturers.

You know, group of foreigners in China, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is a community. In Shanghai there are so few two motorcycle experts, assembled his own sports motorcycle maintenance is the Shanghai F1 regulars. Experience and deep understanding of the ECU, the ECU has its own computer program, but unfortunately not compatible on all the JH600 do not need. I JH 600 experts in the tests that make him a week, his diagnosis is, Jialing ECU program where there may be a
bug, in some circumstances, such as the speed is lower than 1700rpm when idle, will stall (such as file 3 file down 2 or 3, or neutral non-fuel while idling over time, or the first cold start will turn off at least once) . Turn off the reason is because in that case, the fuel mixture ratio is too low. As can be for this situation, make appropriate changes to ECU map map, map of local in the mixing ratio increased, the problem may be solved. (To verify this hypothesis, we blocked the inlet portion to increase the mixing ratio of forced, tried many times, no re-turn off this phenomenon, of course such a serious impact on power, not the solution) may affect the mixing ratio increased environmental standards, or increased fuel consumption, but those are minor in terms of the existing user problems, safety first ah. To make this change, hope Jialing JH 600 of the ECU map to open, or let the experts have a version to modify or for experiments. These requests are the love of JH600 user's requirements, together with the manufacturers want to get rid of the problem. Of course there are many other reasons may lead to extinction, but the bug inside the ECU program is among the most basic problem, which causes the entire car oil spray system to reduce margin of error (margin of error), leading to highly unreliable point system .

I start writing this post, some Chinese friends told me bluntly, useless. However, this "fatalism" We do not accept foreigners. I love the Jialing JH600 customers want JH600 success, want more JH600 comrades and lovers can swim with. I always say, do not turn off the JH600 if the problem is a very good motorcycle. This is also consistent evaluation of all foreigners. View of the world to know that we foreigners should still superior to this evaluation is not easy, hopes Jialing continue to work hard. Jialing plant matter such as attention, to help address this security issue, please contact me or our foreigner community.

[euphonius]

I do hope we can start naming names. Who at Jialing is the point person? I like Eric's idea of keeping gentle pressure on in public, but would like also to make regular calls to encourage Jialing toward success!

cheers

[milton]

....
I start writing this post, some Chinese friends told me bluntly, useless. However, this "fatalism" We do not accept foreigners. I love the Jialing JH600 customers want JH600 success, want more JH600 comrades and lovers can swim with. I always say, do not turn off the JH600 if the problem is a very good motorcycle. This is also consistent evaluation of all foreigners. View of the world to know that we foreigners should still superior to this evaluation is not easy, hopes Jialing continue to work hard. Jialing plant matter such as attention, to help address this security issue, please contact me or our foreigner community.

Wow, i have never used Google translator before. I am surprised about the level of sophistication it has reached. And it is very funny. Love that "want more JH600 comrades and lovers can swim with" expression. As matter of fact, some of us JH600 comrades and lovers have a plane to "swim" together on Saturday. I hope Eric is done by then so I can have something to swim with.

Cheers!

[998S]

Stock purchasing advisory --- Buy ice-cream maker stocks soonest, they will explode



YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I did it ..... I am 99.99999% sure I solved the problem.
Just back from a 1 hr ride on Milton's bike, lots of stop & go, ZEROOO stalls.....how about that?
And the bonus? I am pretty sure it got lots more power in the mid range.

Stupid stupid stupid Jialing ......

E.