Fake plate/No plate experience and advice

[Jonsims]

Just because something is illegal it does not mean it is wrong. I'm sorry but this is the first time I've read something really stupid on this site. Okay.. Probably this Kiamo chappie is Chinese and has always lived here so has no experience of what the world overseas is like. Overseas there are no stupid draconian laws marginalising motorcycles. Just last year we were forced in one town to ride on the EBIKIE/Bicycle Lane as there were too many accidents involving motorcycles. I didnt' and simply drove on through the thugs in uniforms throwing projectiles at me. Riding a motorcycle on the road is not illegal. Riding a motorcycle on the EBIKE road IS illegal. That the police are forcing you to do an illegal thing does not make it right.
Here is another thing to think about. KIAMO.. It is the police that issue driving licenses to drivers in China. If there are too many accidents on the roads in China the problem is with the police passing people who are patently not able to drive safely on the roads.

Countries overseas should now be imposing 100% tax and duty on china exports as china has been a member of the WTO for a long time now. That China imposes these stupid taxes and duties on imported vehicles is disgusting.

People do the "WRONG THING" in many cases to make the world a better place KIAMO. What Mao Zedong started 100 years or so again was illegal.. Women would still be having their feet bound, corruption would be rife here, poverty widespread.. So mate.. Haha.. The law can be an ass... NEVER Say "THERE IS NO DEBATE."

I've only ever crashed when wearing my helmet and there has been no traffic around. I think not wearing my helmet and other road users keep me a bit more careful. Just saying... ;-)

Also... There's no debate. Wrong is wrong, no matter how much more convenient it might be. The amount of effort going into rationalising illegal riding is rediculous.

If you want to do the wrong thing, because its cheaper or you get beat down in your efforts to go legal, then fine. But let's not pretend it might be OK.... Haha

[kiamo]

Hmm maybe I was a bit fast to say there is no debate. I suppose it might be of value. But don't take my use of the word "wrong" so condemningly.

I see it similar as media piracy. It's easy to do, cheaper and has very lax repercussions. People come up with all sorts of reasons to justify it, including talking about reforming the way it all works, but it doesn't matter.

The laws of the country say no. And that's what makes it "wrong" regardless of our own personal moral compass. I don't think it's relevant whether or not we think it's fair or just.

But the rules are lax and kinda screwed so many of us are happy to do the wrong thing. Same way the media industry encouraged piracy. (more so before digital distribution took off)

[euphonius]

At risk of sounding like a broken record (anyone here remember records?), let me repeat:

It's up to you if you want to ride illegally, meaning without a genuine license or genuine registration or insurance. But when you are involved in an accident you'll sorely wish you'd done these three things because, even if you are doing everything right and someone else takes you out and it's completely their fault, if you are unregistered or unlicensed the authorities can assign 100% of the responsibility to you, and your insurance will balk at covering you. You'll be liable to spend 15 days in jail and/or be deported, though you might need a few self-financed weeks or months in the hospital first. None of this may be fair or reasonable, but it's the sea in which we swim if we ride in China, regardless of nationality.

I'm all for civil disobedience to protest unjust laws, but the track record of those who've tried this in China is not very good. More to the point, I'm not sure I understand the deep underlying moral or ethical principle for choosing to ride unlicensed, unregistered or uninsured. Would you do that in your home country?

cheers
euphonius

[Lao Jia Hou]

Just because something is illegal it does not mean it is wrong.

Very true, but also a real can of worms. Case-in-point ... marijuana debate in the USA these days.

Countries overseas should now be imposing 100% tax and duty on china exports as china has been a member of the WTO for a long time now. That China imposes these stupid taxes and duties on imported vehicles is disgusting.

You have a good point here, and I've heard that some foreign motorcycle manufacturers are trying to pursue this.

More to the point, I'm not sure I understand the deep underlying moral or ethical principle for choosing to ride unlicensed, unregistered or uninsured.

That pretty much sums it up, IMHO. Riding illegally is a personal choice of which I'm also not sure involves any deep moral/ethical principles. At a minimum, however, everyone should at least recognize the potential consequences of riding illegally.

Little Beijing story ... rider was illegal (no motorcycle driving license & riding an illegal bike). He gets into a serious accident and is hospitalized. The car that hit him was, apparently, completely at fault. The car driver & the car driver's insurance covered his immediate hospital bills.

Zoom ahead until after he was discharged, several weeks later, when the police issued their final report (noting that he was unlicensed, his bike was not road legal, and he was uninsured). The car insurance company is now suing him to recover all of the hospital bills (we're talking MAJOR bills), and the damage to the car, and the "mental anguish" caused to the car driver ... all because the rider was unlicensed and riding an illegal bike. This happened last year and, from what I've heard, there are some problems with him being allowed to leave the country until the matter is settled. More than a can of worms .. more like a pail of snakes.

** EDIT - I should add what ZMC stated earlier:

Seriously you must be some sociopath if you can live with riding someone else's ride.

Personally, I guess there are moral/ethical principles involved. I'd feel pretty bad riding around on an illegal bike when there is a good chance that it is stolen.

[prince666]

Hi Euphonius

You said .."I understand the deep underlying moral or ethical principle for choosing to ride unlicensed, unregistered or uninsured. Would you do that in your home country?"

I would like to say from MY point of view "YES" i would and did ride ilegal back home yes i did used to speed back home and loads more... but that was "MY" home country and i know the laws and what would happen to me ?? but here in China it is not MY country so i do my best to be legal on all counts ... out of the 20 members in our club "I" am the only one who is fully legal on ALL counts and we have 2 members who are police offices as well who ride bikes so as the old saying goes "Don't do as I do, do as I say" and i say try to be legal on all counts !!

It is fair to say that the shit will hit the fan if you have a "Accident" here in china
and let me tell you "IT IS NOT IF YOU HAVE A ACCIDENT IT IS WHEN !"
because you will at some point its only a matter of time ..... but we are all over 21 so you all make up your own minds what is best for YOU ....

[ZMC888]

Hmm the rights and wrongs/illegal and legal debate....... I have some sympathy in some cases and none in others.

I really hate.........
-Loads of foreigners are riding around on unregistered scooters and motorcycles without ANYTHING at all, no insurance, registration license etc. Most of them have made zero effort to be legal and do what they do because 'other people do it too'. Well that's as bad as the Chinese guy that pulls into the road without looking or bought his license by the back door and has no clue how to drive because 'other people do it too'.
-People with fast powerful bikes with no kind of licensing, registration or insurance and bikes that were actually stolen, mostly from Hong Kong. Makes me sick. Be clear though many XJR400s and CB400s plus many others were legally imported and de-plated.

Sometimes though..........

-The city won't issue a license.
-The city won't issue registration.
-The city won't change the name on the registration.
-Your bike from the factory was a POS and needed to rebuilt to make it safe, but hasn't had it's annual inspection because it would fail due to looking 'a bit different'.
-Some 2nd hand bikes have lost the blue book or the person named has left the country or is other wise unknown making more insurance impossible.
-Some bikes are otherwise legal but 'over legal age' and are in good working order.
-The city tries to force a motorcycle that can do 0-60 in 2 seconds to ride down a sidewalk.
-The city police pulled legal plates off legally imported bikes or domestically made larger capacity bikes.
-Many wealthy Chinese including businessmen and bureaucrats love cars and do all that they can to ensure 'cars win' trying to ban every other road user: three wheelers, horses, trucks, motorcycles and the war has just started on ebikes and 'fixie' bicycles. Screw those cars and people trying to use the law to make a sea of conforming idiot cages back to back for miles.....stupidity.

Like the others said, Just know the consequences of the rules you are breaking.

[prince666]

"Little Beijing story ... rider was illegal (no motorcycle driving license & riding an illegal bike). He gets into a serious accident and is hospitalized. The car that hit him was, apparently, completely at fault. The car driver & the car driver's insurance covered his immediate hospital bills.

Zoom ahead until after he was discharged, several weeks later, when the police issued their final report (noting that he was unlicensed, his bike was not road legal, and he was uninsured). The car insurance company is now suing him to recover all of the hospital bills (we're talking MAJOR bills), and the damage to the car, and the "mental anguish" caused to the car driver ... all because the rider was unlicensed and riding an illegal bike. This happened last year and, from what I've heard, there are some problems with him being allowed to leave the country until the matter is settled. More than a can of worms .. more like a pail of snakes."



I love a nice story .... let me tell you one more.. some time back a bike ride was riding his bike nice and slow very carefully when a bike from his right just turn left in front of him the bike rider could not stop could not get out of the way so a accident happen ! the other bike had 2 people on the bike and was hurt ... not bad but was taken away to hospital by ambulance. The police came took pictures and told the bike rider to come to the police staion the next day with all his docs...
So the next day the bike rider took his insurance, bike log book, and his UK DL ... police checked all the docs and then asked do you have a chinese DL no he said does it realy matter he asked ??? no said the police man the bike is legal and you have insurance ok so the police man gave him the police accident report which said 100% not his fault and dont have a chinese DL !! now you need to go to your insurance company which was I.C.P. to sort out the claim for the other people medical bill which was for 10.000 RMB . At the I.C.P office all the Docs was checked again with the police report which said NO CHINESE DL ??? all I.C.P. was cocerned about was the UK DL still "valid" job done people got paid the bike rider got paid 2000 rmb for the damage to his bike every one was happy .. and like most of these little story its all "here say" but my little story is NOT here say as I WAS THE RIDER ON THE BIKE !!!! so was i lucky who knows ...TIC... and this happen in a town which is renowned for being very hard on illegal bikes not my bike was illegal just did not have at the time a legal chinese DL

And some stories do have a happy ending!

[Bulbazoth]

Here's another story: I met a friend who had an electric motorcycle. He was riding in the road when a Chinese woman ran out in front of him. He was probably going around 60-70kph, so the woman went flying and had a big gash on her head. Even though his bike was electric and it was the Chinese woman's fault, the police determined his ebike was "too fast" and they made him pay the 30,000+ yuan medical bills. He repaired the ebike, sold it, and now he rides an illegal 150cc. Lesson learned, he tried to be legal but got screwed over anyway!

It really isnt all that hard to avoid the traffic police in Nanjing...I have a Chinese friend who bought a 1000 kuai 125cc scooter and gets around just fine. He can even bribe the school guards with cigarettes to let him on campus. All you have to do is avoid the Xinjiekou area during the day, no problem! As for all this morality bullshit, what a joke... just because other people do it doesn't mean you should blah blah blah!!! This is China. The government pays people to drive around trucks and spray water on the road, explain that morality please. People drive on the wrong side of the road whether in a car or on a bike. People ride/drive without a license both in cars and on bikes. Soooo many people go through red lights, dont use signals, etc etc right in front of the police and the most ive seen them do is blow their whistle. You only get in trouble if you get in an accident or you get caught, so ride safe and dont get caught.

Bottom line: be aware, be safe, be courteous, dont hit anyone, dont get caught, and do whatever you want!

[prince666]

Bottom line: be aware, be safe, be courteous, dont hit anyone, dont get caught, and do whatever you want!

Surely the bottom line is be legal on all points? but you are only 21 so I just leave it at that if you don't mine

Nuff said

[Bulbazoth]

Surely the bottom line is be legal on all points? but you are only 21 so I just leave it at that if you don't mine

Nuff said

You are dying of cancer. The only way you can be cured before you die is medicinal marijuana. However, marijuana is illegal where you live. Sorry. You are just another sheep brainwashed by the NWO, so let's just leave it at that and you can continue watching FOX news, eating your weijing, drinking your fluoride, and doing whatever the media convinces you. And, I'm actually 22. Good math!