Learning a LOT here on CC's site!!

[Az4x4Taco]

I'm a COMPLETE newcomer when the subject is today's crop of China bikes, although I was vaguely aware in years past of rather harsh criticisms leveled at Chinese motorcycle technology imported and marketed here in the U.S. This is not to say I'm a complete stranger to motorcycling, only that up until very recently I've never thought seriously about Chinese manufactured bikes as being worthy of serious consideration.

I thought for a long time that my motorcycling days were undoubtedly behind me, but with the intrusion of world wide economic realities I've developed a real interest in purchasing a new bike, something that would serve for local in town transportation as well as riding in the desert that surrounds us or up north on cool pine country back roads and forest trails.

I started my investigating on ChinaRiders a number of weeks ago, and found that American Lifan (the Lifan factory's authorized distributor for the U.S.) and its dealer network was easily the top choice amongst those posting. I was quickly caught up in that excitement and contacted Brian Mays of MOTO Xtreme arranging for a new LF200GY-5 to be shipped to me, paying through PayPal. Some three days later Brian informed me that American Lifan in Dallas was out of bikes to ship, and refunded my payment.

It appears, according to what I've been able to learn, that new Lifan product may take another month or longer to arrive at AL. While some are rather disappointed in that time table I on the other hand will gladly use the time to my advantage as I continue to research the China bike market.

A few days ago I first logged into My China Moto and began to see a new perspective on Chinese bikes and the technology that's driving this world impacting industry. CC's first person reporting, along with any number of others who actually live and ride in China, has began to broaden my horizons in more ways than one, and MCM has become my China bike site of choice.

I am particularly interested in comparisons of 200, 230 and 250cc dual sport bikes when it comes to the American market, and along those lines I have a number of questions and concerns. I'm still drawn to American Lifan simply because their organization and dealer network, while nowhere near Japanese bike standards, is apparently about as good as it gets when it comes to the Chinese bike market. Once product begins to flow freely again AL dealers should be able to supply and service what they sell with minimal down time just as they were doing previously.

Price being a factor (which for most of us it always is) the AL supplied Lifans are tough to beat. I can for example get into the LF200GY for about $1200 less than what it would cost to purchase, title and plate a similar Qlink 200cc dual sport.

However the Qlink 200cc dual sport is available at two different local dealers for purchase right now, service included, while the LF200GY is still many weeks away and will arrive crated and requiring assembly!

I'm fully capable of assembling a crated bike and doing it correctly, and some weeks from now our desert heat will begin to dissipate a bit, so for the dollar savings alone it may be well worth the wait. However after reading CC's glowing reports on Qlink bikes in China, how well made and durable they are, and seeing his photos of the factory manufacturing and assembly processes, I'm wondering if possibly going with that brand might prove to be worth the extra money it would set me back for the convenience of having a local dealership available for any major service that my machine may require?

Who knew that contemplating a jump into the China bike small displacement dual sport market would be such a chore here in the U.S.!!

I may drive over today and look again at the Qlink XP 200 available at the dealer east of me, or go further west and look at the Qlink XF 200 available at the dealer on the far west side of town. ..Or I may simply wait until American Lifan is again supplying product to their dealers so I can order a new LF200GY-5B shipped to my front door!

[bigdamo]

Hi
Welcome to the forum.

From what I've worked out on this site there will probably/might be more models released latter this year.

I think Chinese bikes will be a force to be reckoned with in years to come. I think they look at Japan and say well if they could do it we can do it better?

[Az4x4Taco]

Thanks for the welcome! In a way I'm glad that my purchase of an LF200GY-5 failed to go through for lack of sufficient product at the Dallas warehouse to fill every order. That has allowed me to look more closely into the China bike market and possibly make a more informed choice. I think, like you, that new product arriving one day soon will be greater in some ways than what the American Lifan distributor just recently sold out of. So waiting is no problem at all, and this great site is helping make this interim a real adventure of discovery.

Trusting that all is well in Sydney with you and yours, and that you're enjoying life's ride one day at a time!

[CrazyCarl]

AZMan...

Welcome to the site! Your trials and tribulations about getting the right bike are well founded and shared by many people. Much of the problem lies in importers and manufacturers developing quality lasting relationships.

So far, I've seen the Lifan GY5 and, of course, the QingQi (QLink). In my totally honest opinion I think that the QLink is a better bike in terms of build, finish and motor reliability. It's slowly getting a very passionate group of riders/engineers all around the world, some of whome can be found on this site.

To be sure, I will have some bias towards the QingQi's for several reasons and both are quite capable bikes with pro's and con's. That said, on a recent trip (belated report coming very soon) ChinaV and I hammered the QingQi's on crap roads for a couple thousand kilometers at very high altitudes and saide from some regular dual sports problems (like snapped spokes) they never showed any major problems with the engine and pulled both our butts and luggage up to 16,000 feet. Ultimately, for a C-Moto I truely think it's the best around...

Only problem is one you've found already which is they are selling for a premium price in the US which I think is ultimately not good for the North American C-Moto market. For 3,000 bucks its very easy for folks to start looking at second hand japanese bikes as a viable alternative as long as they are available locally. And really, with the US economy what it is we have to be watching our P's and Q's.

You have a difficult decision to make and it will take some research. I definitely suggest going to check out the QLink if you have some spare time as I think you'll like the fit and finish of the bike. If you are allowed to take it for a test ride I think you'll be pleasantly surprised! If the price is still a turn off and you're not in a hurry then I may suggest saving some pennies for spring of 2009 and seeing what's available by then.

QingQi has a GN250 engine powered bike coming out which should be very reliable but haven't seen any pictures of the actual biuke unit yet. Loncin has a 250 out now, at least in Canada, but haven't heard if it's available in the US and for how much. The price in Canada though seemed a little steep! Shineray appears to gave their goals set on 250-400cc bikes but so far none have materialized on the shores of NA so we'll have to see what's available...and I think 2009 will be the year for many of these new contenders to surface in the western markets.

In the meantime, there's lots of figure out and follow now that we're in the early stages of C-Moto development. I know they can make good bike and offer them for a good price but business is business and unless a manufacturer steps up to the plate and starts direct distribution to control the market prices and supply lines...it could be a ricky road for widespread ownership of C-Moto's in Western nations.

Let us know if you have any questions and certainly share your experiences and concernes with us here. We've got a real first class group of guys from all over the world on MCM and likely to get more and more as the industry and our experiences grow.

CC

[Az4x4Taco]

Thanks Carl. I appreciate all you've said and all those who are contributing here. I liked the looks of the Qlink bikes that I saw here locally, however the new LF200GY-5B that I've been told will be available in the US towards the end of the year is also a very good looking bike, with a lot cleaner lines IMHO and a number of other improvements over the GY-5. A Qlink 200cc dual sport bike OTD with title and plate will run me about US$3250, while the Lifan bike titled and plated comes in at $2000 or less.

American Lifan is on its way towards establishing a solid and reliable dealer network here, and the guys at the AL home office/warehouse in Dallas are very much in tune it seems to me with what needs to be done to keep Lifan an up and coming force in the US market. If Lifan China can stay ahead of the curve as far as demand and parts availability is concerned (and I realize there are still many kinks in the system especially on China's end that must be ironed out for that to fully take place) they have a good chance of proving to be all that their potential indicates is possible.

Well, ..got to hit the road in my Tacoma and head north about 4 hours to hunt elk. Early season hunts can be productive or a bust, ..depending on a variety of factors. However we have "any elk" tags so the main thing is to try and put a quantity of meat in the freezer!

[Az4x4Taco]

Gotta love broadband wireless, and above all I wish I had a good trail bike up here right now! Next time I hope to bring one with me to scout the remote back country on. We hunted last evening in heavy stands of Juniper some 20 miles or so north of Heber, Arizona. Saw a lot of sign, most of it old, and jumped one elk out of a Juniper thicket, but had no good shot and arrived back in camp at dark empty handed.

Early this morning we were up and into a promising area where we came across lots of fresh sign. Soon we flushed two heavily antlered bulls, a cow and a calf. However the window of opportunity for a clean shot was in micro seconds and no more than 40 yards max in thick growth, and beyond that the elk made their getaway without a shot fired.

I'm guessing the jury is out here as well as elsewhere on whether hunting is something we should be involved with. However if you'd been born and raised in the American Southwest and had grown up hunting like I did then you'd know that it's very much an ongoing rite of passage, bringing us back in many ways to the very essence of our pioneer ancestral roots.

Truth be told however I enjoy being out and away from the daily grind, in the company of good hunting companions for a few days, as much and even more than the actual kill - if it comes to that. As I said earlier, these early season hunts can be hit or miss, so when we get back out this evening into the more promising looking areas it will be interesting to see if the elk have moved out for more remote areas or if we can still find a small herd and take an animal or two to fill the freezers. Either way the hunt is worth it in my view, and the only thing that would make it more enjoyable is having a good trail bike, today's version of the venerable horse, to scout more remote country on!

[CrazyCarl]

You know I'm not really very informed about how small displacement bikes can be used in the field but I'd like to know more about how! If we can get enough interest I'd like to see a proper thread on it because I think it's an interesting application of the machines.

My great grandfather Crego was one of the top Buffalo hunters during the expansion west over a hundred years ago. I myself haven't done much hunting aside from blowing the head off a squirrel in Malaysia with a Beretta over-under but have a 30-06 waiting to be properly sighted in back in the States.

I've got mixed feelings about hunting and I suppose have felt the "properness" of it revolved around the relationship between the hunter and prey. I don't think that killing for the sake of killing (as in not eating the meat) is cool and hunting a species to the point of extinction generally ticks me off. Also, I think it's about how much the hunter challenges himself to understand his prey, predict its behavior and work in the same environment. Setting up salt licks and hiding in an air conditioned club house isn't exactly my idea of sporting.

But I recognize that most hunters aren't like that and that they do have a connection between themselves, the land and the prey. Animals, esp. herd animals like Elk, have keen senses and have a sense of what "hunting season" and makes getting a clean opportunity to squeeze one off far from easy.

On a trip around North America several years back I stopped at a campground near Waterton Park in Alberta and ended up passing whiskey with an old guy named Don who converted old school busses into RV's, chopped Japanese cruisers and used to bow hunt. He told me some very vivid stories of how he would stalk prey with a bow and I gotta say that stuff is MAD difficult! Also told me about a staring contest with a Grizzley which he was happy to walk away from. I may have never heard better camp fire stories in my life and I hope he's doing okay.

Then of course, the best meat I probably ever had was marinated venison from Montana cooked over a camp fire grill. I can still taste it! While I prefer to do most of my hunting with a Nikon and a telephoto (which I assure you isn't easy either and requires many of the same skills), I certainly wouldn't object to hearing and seeing more about how bikes can be used in any field application...and some pics of fresh cut venison steaks wouldn't get turned down either!



CC

[Az4x4Taco]

Y..I think it's about how much the hunter challenges himself to understand his prey, predict its behavior and work in the same environment..

Couldn't agree more Carl. I've hunted big game in Arizona, Mexico, and Utah since I was 12, and learned to hunt from those who truly knew how. And it is about challenging yourself, understanding all that goes into a good hunt, and taking responsibility for the environment. And yes I've seen an increase in the lack of hunting savy and general carelessness on the part of many so called "hunters" over the years. But those I hunt with are not in that category, and that is an encouraging thing in my view.

As far as our elk herds in Arizona and the entire west, they're so large that by sheer numbers they are forcing our formerly thriving deer herds completely out of areas that once were deer habitat almost exclusively. Therefore Game & Fish departments are anxious to get more hunters into the field to thin the elk out, so they are making it easier to hunt elk each passing year, with some permits now being sold across the counter instead of doled out by lottery as was the case for so many years.

Anyway, I hope to have a good trail bike to do some scouting on by this time next year, which will permit a wide ranging look at the area we're hunting, making it hopefully a more productive outing than this go round is so far proving to be.

[Az4x4Taco]

Just a quick update. Yesterday morning at about 8:30 my oldest son and his brother-in-law, having made their way back into a remote part of our hunt area where they tracked a herd of elk in muddy terrain for more than three miles, came upon the animals bedded down in a heavy Juniper thicket. As the elk bolted out of their bedding spots my son had a good shot and took a nice two year old bull out of the bunch.

Later that evening we went back into the same area to see if we might stir up more of the herd, but they had moved out and no further fresh sign was found. We headed home after packing up camp with close to 300 lbs. of dressed young elk for the freezers, then spent from midnight to about 4:30 this morning butchering and wrapping roasts, steaks, ribs and all the rest for future use.

Again, all I can say is that if I'd had a good trail bike to scout some of these remote areas on I believe we would have all filled our elk permits and tagged an animal. A lot of today's so called "hunters" ride around in four wheel drive vehicles on back roads and tracks trying to somehow luck into a herd on the move. However to really get to where the elk are once the season starts you MUST hunt on foot once you've cut fresh sign, and the place of good trail bike would be to help in locating fresh elk sign in remote areas where road "hunters" won't go. From there you have to track the elk on foot until they're located, with the rest hopefully falling into place as it did yesterday.