JH600 stalling

[998S]

You are not the first one who mention the battery, and you might have just confirmed a point.
ZMC888 mentioned it before, I think Barry as well.
If they have less or no stalling issues, do they have new batteries??
IF so, guess someone like LJH or Milton (with severe stalling issues) might give it an other try with a correct and fresh battery.

[milton]

If they have less or no stalling issues, do they have new batteries??
IF so, guess someone like LJH or Milton (with severe stalling issues) might give it an other try with a correct and fresh battery.

I replaced my battery when the bike was at around 5000 km on the clock. It was bought from Mr. Liu, Jialing's "JH600 rep" in Shanghai. There wasn't anything wrong with my old battery, but the new one was from a factory which allegedly OEMs for B&W and supposedly holds charge better. The stalling problems came and went (and came back again in full force now) with that second battery in place. I have no reason to suspect it as the culprit of my stalling problem. However, it is definitely something to add to that "top 10 list" of possible causes for JH600 stalling problem.
Again, the ECU design is so marginal that it doesn't take much to make it stall.

[euphonius]

My JH has very few km on it and it was only stalling a few times every ride I took. (which have not been very many unfortunately) I had a friend in the USA who replaced the 3 year old battery on my R1200GSA for me as I am going to the states in a couple of days and want to get a ride in. He used the wrong battery as the exact one was not available but then my red pig began stalling every few miles. He replaced the battery with the correct size and problem solved. I also heard this issue was discussed in ADVRider but I have not confirmed it.

My battery on my JH600 was not really holding a charge and needed to be jumped after a week or so. I figured what the hell and ordered a new yuasa battery for my JH and made a trickle charger out of an old computer power supply unit to get a 100% complete charge on it. I charged it overnight. I installed the battery and rode all day today with no stalling at all. I am not about to say this is a fix for anything other than a dead battery. I am just saying that after one day, I went from stalling periodically to zero stalls all day after installation of very fresh strong battery.

....

Thanks Aggie for this story, and it makes me wonder whether the JH600 stator is generating enough juice during riding.

During a dual-JH600 ride yesterday with Motokai, we saw a dramatic change in the level of stalls in his bike over the duration of the ride. Once we'd put in a bit of time on a highway at north of 130kph, what had become a stall-filled ride (I think his final count was 18!) transitioned into a stall-free ride. (Yes, we had fun.)

Is it safe to assume that when the engine is spinning at 4500-5500 rpm for a sustained period that even a dodgy battery is fully charged and the stator itself is generating plenty of current to run the ECU, injector and other EFI systems? Is it possible that the stock stator is an underperformer and could be upgraded for a higher output design?

Batteries are notoriously fickle, and vary from piece to piece even for the same model in a single production run. Motokai, Milton and I all have swapped our batteries, I most recently (in summer), and my closed-cell gel battery is working great. I had not a single stall during our ride yesterday, not even the 30-second startup stall which I used to get every time.

Could this be a case where the stator is underperforming, leaving the EFI to rely too much on stored power in the battery? And if the battery is fading, the stalls -- even if related to the mapping and other factors -- are more frequent?

cheers

[Barry]

I had my battery replaced quite some km's ago, but this year though. I do ride my bike basically everyday, apart from when I shipped it for holiday it has never been asleep for more than 2 consecutive days. The thing I do have is when riding in the city a lot and having to stop and wait at traffic lights with my lights turned on is that my battery signal will start flashing, and stops flashing as soon as I turn off the light. I was told by the BJ service center it's due to the European version's 55W headlight!

[MotoKai]

Some additional info to the above euphonius post:

On my 3km ride to meet him, I had 2 stalls. One of which was going thru a busy Shanghai intersection and was unable to do a quick "thumb start" to get my ass out of the crosshairs of numerous taxis, cars and other motorized vehicles. After getting safely to the street corner I thumbed the starter a few more times and finally the bike fired up. It was another 200m to the motoshop where I met euphonius (who was getting a forkjob - no comment!).

Fast forward 30mins, I turned my bike over to euphonius to compare his post-serviced forks with my Chongqing stock forks (fyi his frontend is tight now with minimal dive). Euphonius thumbed and thumbed the starter, but my bike would not fire up. I tried a few times unsuccessfully, then decided to turn the throttle wide up for a full second, and let off it quickly. And guess what? She fired right up without a cough. Not sure what this was about, but initially it seemed as though the battery didn't have enough life to start the bike - but after a twist of the wrist there was no sign of electrical strain whatsoever.

After a great lunch at 小杨生煎 (Small Yang's Fried Dumplings) we took off for a quick jet to Jiangsu and back on 沪太路 (Hutai Lu). Total stalls I had upon reaching the border of Jiangsu was 18. This included both DOWNSHIFTING STALLS and IDLE STALLS (idle stalls are what I describe as stalls which occur when idling- e.g. sitting at red light). When we got to the seawall that runs along the East China Sea in 浏河 (Liu He), my bike wasn't stalling at all.

Based on what has been discussed by all of us in this thread, I will guess that these first 18 stalls occurred when the bike was on the "less hot" side of life. By the time we got to Jiangsu the bike had increased in temperature and was then running HOT. With all the variables the ECU was trying to map, this was a place she was most comfortable, calculating correctly for RPMs, Engine Temp & Ambient Temp. Note: As the bike became hotter upon reaching Liu He, the ambient temperature had dropped quite a bit, creating a greater contrast between engine temp and outside temp.

(Incidentally I need to buy a winter riding jacket, otherwise I should plan to only ride in Southern China these next few months!)
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________
* The battery discussion is an interesting one. I've had some core electrical issues with my bike early on which prompted me to install the new battery. Then, I had a stator issue on my Inner Mongolia Ride (click to see details on this). I am volunteering myself as the first to change-out the battery - this will be a "fix in isolation", meaning all other things will be kept constant - including color of my socks.

Is there a recommended battery someone can suggest?

[998S]

And guess what? She fired right up without a cough

I don't think this is the battery itself.
I guess the engine was turning over, but not firing, right?
If a battery goes south, the turning over will stop, as the start motor takes the highest amperage.
If the engine turns smooth, but just does not fire up, I guess the cylinder did not get enough fuel from the injector.

With all the variables the ECU was trying to map, this was a place she was most comfortable, calculating correctly for RPMs, Engine Temp & Ambient Temp

Again the sensors he? First thing I will do if I got Milton's bike, will check and loose up some sensors, and see what happens

Is there a recommended battery someone can suggest?

Go for a closed cell one, and buy the one with the highest possible Amperage. I don't know the output of your stator, but guess you will find it in your manual somewhere.

[TexasAggie]

I again repeat that I am not saying the battery fixed my bike. I only state the facts as they have happened so far. I bought a Yuasa YB14L-A2 on TaoBao. I also was sure to trickle charge for 16 hours with charger before I installed the new battery.

I had another short ride (27km) with no stalls yesterday. I am batting 1000 since the new battery but have not really had enough seat time to swear anything is really better or the gremlins gods have taken a break. I am off to the USA for a few weeks so no more updates on this from me for a while.

[MotoKai]

Just off a marathon call with Liu Zhi Dong (aka LZD - Shanghai's JH600 Service Rep for Jialing). Thanks to Jeff (aka euphonius) for carrying the call. Jeff provided full update on the MCM JH600 Group's experiences. LZD also shared with us some of the his recent experiences to suss-out the issue. Topics covered included:
- Stall patterns
- Safety concerns (Jialing needs to fix this before any rider has an accident caused by this stall)
- Possible causes for the stalls
- Jialing (Chongqing) unresponsiveness
- Importance for Jialing to sort this out as the JH600 becomes an export bike (e.g. Brazil)
- Jeff raised the need for a possible "recall" (this language should start to raise serious concern for Jialing)
- Solution Searching (Jeff recounted LJH's Beijing experiences and LZD shared what some local guys are doing to find the cause)
- Reiterated that Jialing/Chongqing needs to have ownership of this problem and find a solution
- Next steps include LZD to have make a formal complaint on the behalf of all JH600 stalling bikes with Senior Management Team at Jialing

* I'll allow Jeff to add details and color of the call as he was leading the conversation (and for those of you who don't know Jeff, his Chinese is astounding). Thanks again!

[MotoKai]

And to support LZD's efforts with Jialing/Chongqing, I will ask again for those who have experienced/are experiencing stalls to provide the following info NO LATER THAN FRIDAY (NOV-18 2011). Please PM me on MCM!

[Barry + Jeff have already submitted info - thanks]

All JH/A/B 600 owners who have/are experiencing stalls, please provide the below information to me via MCM PM:
Name: Please provide full registered name (e.g. Chinese name if that's on the registration)
Bike Model: JH600/JB600/JH600-A
Model year:
Frame/Engine Number:
ECU box number:
Type of fuel (Octane):
Stalling pattern: Provide Brief Description
30 second stall: Yes/No
Other Comments:
Email Address:

Thanks,

Motokai

[998S]

Congratulations ......

Checked Milton's bike today ... and you know what?
I actually found that your Jialings are equipped not only with a Euro III fuel injection (save the planet!), but also with a start/stop system....

What you all thought was stalling, is actually a very advanced system, controlled by the latest Bosch black box.
It automatically cuts the power as soon as it idles too long, or as soon as it smells a traffic light or crossing ... now what about that?

You pay at least 2.000 bucks for that on a BMW, and here it is for free.


Thread closed .....