JH600 stalling

[milton]

Congratulations, Eric. I guess i will be the first one to enjoy the fruit of your fix. It's my bike this miracle cure is first applied after all.

Need all Shanghai JH600 "comrades and lovers" to chime in to figure out how to stock ice cream. I am lactose-intolerant so not sure where to source Eric's prize. Also, according to Eric, he will put in a temporary fix first. Wondering if it is so designed that he can have continuous supply of ice creams.

Much appreciated, Eric.

[euphonius]

I did it ..... I am 99.99999% sure I solved the problem.
Just back from a 1 hr ride on Milton's bike, lots of stop & go, ZEROOO stalls.....how about that?
And the bonus? I am pretty sure it got lots more power in the mid range.

Stupid stupid stupid Jialing ......

O! Frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

[Barry]

And the fix is……………ice-cream injection?!

[998S]

Although I guess that the fuel setting is probably not the only reason for the stalling issue, I highly wonder if replacing half of the engine is necessary.

Frankly that sounds very much as a TIC solution, not knowing the problem, and just starting to change parts, hoping sooner or later the problem will be fixed.
I suspect that the JH-manufacturer got it wrong on the exhaust gas regulations it has to fulfill for the Chinese approval, then set the injection too lean.


PS. An idle speed of 1700 is FAR to high for a 2 cylinder.
Even a high compression Ducati 2 cylinder runs perfectly at 1100-1200 rpm idle, and my Chang Jiang with a large flywheel ticks over at 800 rpm ....

Well, last night I re-read all posts, just to have a check on all problems and probable causes mentioned by all of you.
Also saw my above very first post, when I introduced myself, and the preliminary reasons I mentioned for the stalling issue.
As you know, first impressions are never far from the truth.

I went one by one through all the issues again, thought them over, and deleted them all as the cause.
The decompression was the hardest to crack, I can still argue that it might be related in certain circumstances, but I also deleted it as the cause for now.
That brought me back to the conclusion that it is mixture related.

And then all of a sudden I got a bright idea on how to temporarily override the ECU, tricking it into a richer mixture, and see.
I did that this morning, and it works.
The funny thing is that it does not only solves the stalling issue, but also gives more power in the mid range (or at least I think so, Milton will be the one to confirm that).
The other funny thing is that the bike runs at a much more realistic and smooth 1.500 rpm idle, which is right for a 1-cylinder.


I must be honest in that it will not be a 100% fix.
It is quite a "rude" override, which might have some other consequences (although the test ride this morning showed not much dis-advantages).
There still might be a stall every now and then, it probably starts more difficult, the fuel consumption might be up a bit, and the bike might be a bit surging on lower rpm's in higher gears.
However, with some fine tuning (I first let Milton use it for 1-2 weeks to see how things progress) we might even iron those issue out.

I need a bit of time to see how things are working out on the longer term, just to be sure I am on the right track.
Then perhaps do the same on Motokai's bike, to repeat the surgery and see if that patient also recovers better.
If that all works, and we still can't get into the Bosch ECU, then I can arrange an improved override for the rest of the bikes.

Eric

[998S]

After the call Jeff & I had with LZD yesterday, he did contact Jialing. And as seen by Milton's posting Jialing has confirmed this (Good news!).
Also, LZD requested that my bike be sent to Dr. Cui - which I dropped off last night. Apparently Cui will be guided by input from LZD starting today.
(Eric - Did you contact Cui? If so, please send me a PM or post here what you shared. Thanks!)

Craig, We better stay in contact to see what the doctor comes up with ...
Not sure when you go there again, but if possible, would like to join you to have a look.
Although I seem to have cracked the code, always ready to learn more.

Eric

[Lao Jia Hou]

I'm not a religious person, but I will definitely start worshiping Eric as a god, with ice cream offerings, if his god-like powers result in a "fix".

We Jing'rs may have to make a pilgrimage over the winter!

Fingers crossed ... let's hope we can get our bikes operating properly again.

[998S]

You got 2 bikes, double scope icecream ;-)

I STILL WANT TO EMPHASISE ONE THING - THIS IS FUEL RELATED.
GETTING INTO THE BOSCH ECU IS STILL THE BEST OPTION, AS IT WILL ALLOW ME TO IRON OUT ALL DISADVANTAGES OF THE PRESENT OVERRIDE.
PLEASE PROCEED WITH ALL EFFORTS TO GET JIALING's HELP TO GET US THE RELEVANT SOFTWARE ENTRY.

E.

[euphonius]

And then all of a sudden I got a bright idea on how to temporarily override the ECU, tricking it into a richer mixture, and see.
I did that this morning, and it works.

Dear Eric,

Many thanks again for your erudite and committed sleuthing of our stalling problems.

Is it possible that Jialing, Bosch and AVL (the engine designer) are circling the wagons and ignoring our pleas (which they've been hearing for more than a year now) because the fuel map as currently configured was the only way the bike would pass the China3 emissions requirements? In other words, if the map were reconfigured to address these stall-causing flat spots and this resulted in higher fuel burn and greater emissions, would the bike no longer comply with these tough emission standards?

Needless to say, this is why god made aftermarket farkle manufacturers, so that motorcycle owners could veto some of the design decisions made on their behalf by bike manufacturers who are understandably striving to comply with emissions and other road standards. ChinaV mentioned the Dynojet Powercommander, which appears to my neophyte eye to be an add-on device that allows you to tune your bike gear by gear by overriding the stock fuelmap. But the device is bike specific, and they do not offer one for a Jialing JH600 (surprise, surprise). Is it possible we could work with Dynojet to adapt one of their stock devices for the Jialing?

Crazy that we have to do all this just to get our bikes to function normally. I still think we should push for a factory recall.

cheers

[998S]

Many thanks again for your erudite and committed sleuthing of our stalling problems

From now on, the next one thanking me needs to pay a double scope as well.
I do this for fun and love of bikes and satisfaction ... Heck, I even cleaned up Milton's bike today ...yes i am crazy ...

Is it possible that Jialing, Bosch and AVL (the engine designer) are circling the wagons and ignoring our pleas

Yes and no. The problems comes partly from a lean mixture to pass the test, but also partly due to wrong setting at Jialing.
The bike will definitely not pass the requirements if you play with the fuel, but who cares?
It passed for the type approval, and no further test ever happen after that.

But as mentioned before in other posts, I have seen this sooooo many times happening. This is sooooo Chinese.
Honestly? Cause they don't give a shit ... I am sorry I have to say this, but it is true in too many cases.
I know and have dealt with responsible companies, owners and managers, but the bigger the company, the more common this problem is.
Due to the organization structure, the hierarchy and the responsibility layers, NO ONE who in an organization like Jialing gets any better from solving this, so why bother?
Sad but true.
That is why I push you guys so much to try with Bosch direct, try to get a friend favor from on of the guys there.

ChinaV mentioned the Dynojet Powercommander, which appears to my neophyte eye to be an add-on device that allows you to tune your bike gear by gear by overriding the stock fuelmap

Correct, but my humble opinion is that for such a very simple design like your bikes, it is a total overkill, and should not be necessary.
I dont even have them on one of my race bikes, as all a dynojet can do, can be done within maps too.
And for 30 bikes times a couple of 100 bucks, a lot can be done ... with or without Jialing.

[euphonius]

From now on, the next one thanking me needs to pay a double scope as well.
I do this for fun and love of bikes and satisfaction ... Heck, I even cleaned up Milton's bike today ...yes i am crazy ...

You can clean my bike in exchange for ice cream any time. Thank you! Thank you!

That is why I push you guys so much to try with Bosch direct, try to get a friend favor from on of the guys there.

Will do. I'll get on this tomorrow.

By the way, I just spoke to LZD again tonight, and it sounded like he and Dr Cui were on a rather strange goose chase with regard to Motokai's bike. I won't go into details, but let me just say I suggested they might better take a close read of Milton's translation again, and start talking to Jialing about fuel maps, not what brand of engine oil Motokai is using...

And for 30 bikes times a couple of 100 bucks, a lot can be done ... with or without Jialing.

OK, I'm all ears.

cheers!