TIC (This is China)

[PeteZ]

That was my point. The Eskimo snow thing is a fallacy just as the idea that there is no word for "logic" in Chinese is as well.

[Serpentza]

you guys say fallacy way too much

[MJH]

A humanist might see the Chinese law as logic driven, which by the way is faulted because people do need to express themselves creatively and strict laws result in people ignoring those laws and the system that enforce them.
A humanist may also see the need to fit in and in china that pretty much is impossible if you are not Chinese, where as the humanist thrives on diversity.


I believe that some past dynasty banned logic and replaced it with law as in all plebeians are idiots and should do what they are told to do and that actually would be logic driven.


The whole issue falls to pieces applying logic to human desires, they mandate based on needs and in that you may need a motorcycle but the desire to modify it is not respected, to them unnecessary and not logical.

[bikerdoc]

What about ＂逻辑＂the Chinese loanword for logic? I'm fairly fluent in Chinese and I don't see how it differs in usage from the English word. Are you sure you're not just having a "Eskimos have a hundred words for snow" moment here?

Yes, correct "逻辑" is a direct translation of the word logic. Yesterday I spent some time canvassing the views and opinions of a number of Ch!nese colleagues about a dozen or more (12-15). This is not to say that these are standard office bound Ch!nese, all are professionals, have a minimum of a undergraduate degree with quite a few postgrad level and then some at doctorate. One was at post-doctorate level. No, I don't work in a university or school, but we (my employer) does have an affiliation to a university or two, disciplines within academia. I acknowledge that my survey was anything but of robust design. I wasn't concerned about research design, methodology, epidemiology, statistical analysis/design or such like.

The simple question I asked was "can you (the participant) tell me what this 逻辑 means ?" and showed them the characters on my smart-phone. All could tell me it was the word for logic (some with help to translate and some not). Nearly all said they had learnt it in school, usually high school, that it was tied into mathematics and or computing. Around half the participants could tell me that at high school they had learnt that it was "something" to do with the brain - but not any clear definition was learnt at the time. All could say that they learnt more about "逻辑" at university, but not in any great detail. Only two could actually explain what it meant to them in clear definable terms that was in keeping to an acceptable definition as related to a methodology of thinking and not as a mathematical/computational form. The participants that could not articulate or explain the "mode of thinking" definition of "逻辑" were generally in their thirties or older, had no higher than a bachelors degree, and/or had not studied abroad.

Of two individuals I work with on a daily basis, both could tell me that they recognised the characters "逻辑". One could not translate it, but could tell me she had learnt the characters at high school, but not the meaning. She only learnt that aspect at Uni (Chinese), but still could not clearly explain the meaning. The other staffer could recognise the characters "逻辑", she could also translate them into English, and made a valiant attempt at providing two definitions. She has a post-grad cert, and studied in the UK for four years post her undergraduate degree in China.

So can one infer much from my poorly designed bit of ad-hoc research? Not really, but I can and will say that after 11 years in Ch!na, having worked in both foreign and Ch!nese institutions (not educational) though in and with other licensed professionals, I'd safely hazard a guess that the majority of locals here in Ch!na, do not know "逻辑" in the full sense. IMO reflects back to the fundamentals of the educations system. Rote learning (memorisation techniques/strategies). Moreover there is often ample evidence of the lack of understanding and use of "逻辑" in daily life in Ch!na. Plenty of pragmatism though!

IMO for anyone wishing to comment on the subject (逻辑), I feel one should do only so if they have lived in Ch!na for significant period of time (what ever that can be defined as!), and can reliably relate first hand experience of life in CH!NA.

[bikerdoc]

Logic is subordinate to philosophy, generalizing people is a fallacy. If your seeking a Chinese word for logic then ask them to describe their philosophy on life and all the aspects of life, logic is there is many words.

Historically the Chinese people were and in degrees still are exposed to high levels of government sponsored propaganda much of which were and are based in fallacies. Today we all get exposed through mass media, advertisements and politics with what are fallacies, some believe it all and others see through it, fortunately we have and are educated to filter, higher education here encourages critical analysis.

Ch!nese philosophy, IMO today's modern Ch!na is about as egocentric and capitalist as one can get - at least in my decade plus of experience in Ch!na, having experienced it from many angles. Perhaps there was a philosophical whimsical view of philosophy in Ch!nese history... today, not so much... perhaps with the exception of a measured few (relative speaking measured in hundreds of millions perhaps) along with many a young Ch!nese subscribing to a more hedonistic view, rather than altruistic view - IMO! The govt lead pr0p0ganda machines are still hard at work.

[PeteZ]

The way I see it, Chinese pragmatism and the lack of logical thinking is as much a product of its status as a developing country with a huge population and limited opportunities than anything else, least of all a lack of vocabulary. Shift your gaze a little to the south and you'll find India suffers from many of the same problems as Mainland China including the lack of logical thinking being applied to everyday life.

[MJH]

Capitalism is a economic system not a philosophy, what does this translate into 名家

[MJH]

I like tea.....The Chinese tea ceremony include the harmony of nature and self cultivation, and enjoying tea in a formal or informal setting. When tea is more than a drink and the tea ceremony is understood and practiced to foster harmony in humanity, promote harmony with nature, discipline the mind, quiet the heart, and attain the purity of enlightenment, the art of tea becomes teaism.

Hardly logical....they have my warm and fuzzy with teaism.

Seriously are we confusing logic with common sense, logic is a modular process and if your into that too much could start calling you Sheldon.

[bikerdoc]

MJH, you lived in Ch!na by any chance?

[bikerdoc]

Agreed, capitalism is indeed tied to a monetary system, tied to the ownership policy on goods & capital. However MJH, I've no idea if you've had the benefit of having lived in mainland Ch!na as I have for more than a decade, but I'd suspect that if you had you might be inclined to share a similar view that Capitalism has leached and permiated it's way into deep Ch!nese psyche and replaced any alturistic philosophical view that Ch!nese once held in the form of Confucianism. Read between my lines...