New newbie in Shanghai

[euphonius]

brice,

the info they are giving you is accurate, though I had thought that the smaller-bore bikes had a lower rate for the 沪A plate. You might ask them if the price is the same for a bike under 250cc or under 200cc. There is a limited number of these plates, and Shanghai is not issuing more. And motorcycle plates CAN be transfered to a car, while a car plate cannot be transferred to a motorcycle. This is why the price tracks that of the monthly car plate auction.

a couple of cautions: if they are gathering all of your personal info, it is not likely the bike is first being registered in their shop person's name. if it's first registered in someone else's name, there will be an additional amount of transfer hassle and fees to get it into your name. and because you are not a PRC national, there will be even more confusion. only a very small number of foreigners have done this, and that shop very likely has not done any. (Mine was said to be the first in Shanghai, barely months ago.) They are technically correct that there is no fapiao for the plate, since it's something you are buying from another citizen, not the government. (You actually don't buy a plate; you buy the right to have a plate. When you go to the vehicle management department you will choose a new number from a lottery-style number generator.) But there will be receipts for all of the steps of registration, including the license transfer fee; if you pay the transfer fee you will get a fapiao; if the seller pays the transfer fee he'll get the fapiao.

And, yes, you can transfer the plate later, either with the bike or separately. That's the one thing that makes the plate price tolerable. Think of it as an investment....

cheers

[braillce]

Ok, euphonius, u just made my day.
There are indeed other fees summing up to +/- 3000RMB, I didn't understand what they were for, since insurance should be <300RMB.

About the plate's price, I needed someone knowledgeable to confirm this process is legit, and I can sell it after, so I could see it as an investment.

Thanks 4 ur concern & help.

Pure curiosity; what kind of bike did u get some months ago, and from which shop?

[milton]

brice,


... (Mine was said to be the first in Shanghai, barely months ago.)

Jeff,

Yours is not the first 沪A plate owned by a foreigner with residence permit, but the first issued for a JH600 in Shanghai, a momentous event in itself indeed. Following your feat, now there are a few JH600s in Shanghai legally owned by various Chinese and foreigners.
沪A plate comes in 2 different colors. 沪A Yellow is the kind you and I have. 沪A Blue is cheaper but only for engine displacement of less than 50cc (this restriction was imposed in 1996 as I read from another forum). 沪A Yellow has only a single rate.
As far as the hassle for getting the plate, my suggestion to Brice is to find someone who actually has gone through the process successfully. I am wondering if 刘志东 is willing to help.
Cheers.

[euphonius]

Brice,

As Milton has noted, several of us in Shanghai have bought the Jialing JH600, which at 600cc is the largest-bore modern production bike made in China. (The Changjiang CJ750 is neither modern, nor in production.) There's no dealer in Shanghai, so we've bought directly from the factory in Chongqing. It's a bit north of 30,000 rmb.

Thanks, Milton, for clearing the cobwebs from my memory about the lower-tier 沪A plate, particularly that the threshold of availability is "below 50cc" rather than "below 250cc" as I'd (mis)remembered.

Milton's suggestion about engaging Liu Zhidong in the process is a good one; he's helped several of us get our new bikes directly registered and plated, and he knows the process as well as anyone. If you ask at many other places, including H-D, you'll be told that you as a foreigner simply cannot register a bike in your own name. This was true for many years, leading to a brisk trade in registrations by Chinese girlfriends, but is no longer true. (Fortunately Chinese girlfriends have other excellent uses.)

Given all that, and the fact that regardless of what bike you buy, you're on the hook for 42k+ in plating costs, you might want to think hard about your choice of bike and be sure you are getting exactly what you want. The 沪A will allow you to ride almost anywhere in Shanghai (exceptions are the gaojia and certain big avenues, but many of us know how and when these go unenforced). Our little band of JH600 riders have been experimenting with tricks for getting on the expressways, which are a wonderful way of getting out of town and into better riding areas FAST.

again, good luck sorting this out.

[Fred]

Whoah guys, great info here, but I'm still a bit confused.
I'm in the process of buying a Honda 125 (maybe Storm, maybe CBF), and the guys at the Honda-Sundiro shop on Zhongshan lu told me they can get plates for RMB 6,000. So of course I guess it's waidi plates. Could you please confirm that I can (legally of course) use the bike with waidi plates inside the inner ring on weekends at least ?

And I'm really interested in your tricks to know when those rules are not enforced (evenings after XPM, others things to know ? ;-) ) !

Thanks for the answers !

[braillce]

euphonius,

I just wanted to know I wasn't the only one foreigner told he can get a A plate which would have been highly suspicious.

U're right I decided quite fast on this 250 Raptor Regal bike, but it's my 1st bike above 125cc, and I don't have very accurate needs since almost no moto experience. I'm sure I'll like it. If any wrong I'll tune it...

I'll follow up here and let u know how things went with this shop, after I get (hopefully successfully) controlled by cops, and how's the bike behaving.

Thank u, and milton for ur help.

Fred,

Recently things got worse regarding these "outside ring" plates, I know from those sources that:

(CCTV)
If parked in the inner ring, bikes with no inner plates can be confiscated by police, I don't know how u can get it back then.

(moto shop owner & different drivers)
If driving inside the inner ring, u only expose urself to a 200 RMB fine, but the bike may be confiscated for 24 to 48 hours, u can get it back after at the police station. Fine & confiscation depends chiefly on the cop u face and ur attitude.

(moto shop owner)
If the bike's plate is from X, they can send the bike to X if they want and u can only get it back in X (reason why not too far away plates are still a good investment).

(me driving 4 years inside ring with no plate)
It's only police "tolerance" that gets softer after 8, on week ends, and away from the "hot spots" (xujiahue, people square, xintiandi, etc...), the closer from the ring the better, but u legally CAN'T be inside without inner ring plates.

Regardless of when, while most cops won't even look at u and while some will kindly answer u if u ask ur way, if u end up stuck front of the wrong one he'll give u all the trouble he can, run straight to u, chase u if u evade, hit u if u evade too close.

[euphonius]

Dear Fred,

I've seen plenty of guys riding waidi plated bikes inside the inner ring, but they are taking chances. They tend to slink through smaller streets, and avoid major throughfares. Then again, all the juiced-up scooters blazing through town don't even bother with legal plates, and are brazenly illegal. Cops don't seem even to flinch.

There's no way that 6,000 rmb will buy you anything but a fake plate or a waidi plate or a fake waidi plate, which is a bigger guarantee of trouble should the police decide to crack down. At least with a genuine yellow 沪C plate, which allows you to ride anywhere OUTSIDE the inner ring, your worst-case scenario inside the ring is probably a 200 RMB fine. You'd have to rack up a lot of those before it cost you more than 42,000 for a 沪A plate!

As for how to ride in forbidden places like the gaojia and major avenues: 1) be foreign, 2) tuck in behind other vehicles so you are not visible to traffic police during red lights, 3) choose your route through intersections so as not to be within arm's reach of the traffic police, 4) look the other way as if you didn't notice when you know they are signaling for you to stop. There are plenty of places to get on the gaojia where there is little or no control. You might get stopped once you are there and riding through central Shanghai, but generally they just tell you to get off, though I think it helps to be a foreigner. It's also pretty easy to get on the expressways if you have a big enough bike, don't take "no" for an answer, and squeeze past the closed gate. Be polite, and don't argue. Act confused, or just say, in Chinese, "it's okay, I can look after my own safety" while you roll on. There's rarely a problem getting OFF the expressways; it's getting on that is slightly confrontational. I'm not sure I'd want to ride a 125 or even a 250 on the expressways, however.

good luck and cheers

[Fred]

Thanks a lot for the answers guys.

For some strange reason I thought it was legal to ride with a waidi plate downtown during the weekends, well...

Anyway I didn't really plan to go on the gaojia with a 125, but below them, on the Yan'an for example. I'll need to start checking which streets are legally ok for bikes, damned... ;-))
Euphonius, would you know the price range for a real waidi (yellow) plate of a city close to Shanghai (Suzhou, Hangzhou) ? Just to check what the guys at the Honda shop are telling me.

Brice, I don't even want to know how do you know they will hit you if you're trying to evade and they are close... ;-))

Last question guys : the inner ring refers to which street/gaojia/expressway : the waihuan (A20) or the neihuan (Zhongshan lu) ? Literally speaking inner is nei, so I think I know, but just want to confirm.

[milton]

I'd like to clarify a couple things:
1. Waidi plate is not legally allowed at all to enter Shanghai, let alone the inner ring. This regulation has been rigoriously enforced during the World Expo, which is still going on now. Some of my Chinese friends with waidi plate had to be very creative in finding a way in last few times when we toured around getting outside of Shanghai. (Getting out is much easier than coming back in). Luckily the Expo has less than a month to go.
2. Inner ring has never been a demarcation of any kind as far as motorcycles are concerned. The range of allowed access for 沪C plate depends on the district you want to go, and not on inside of outside of the inner ring. For example, sometimes the inner ring cuts through a district, such as LuWan, in which case even 沪C is not officially allowed on that section of the inner ring.

Hope these points help.
Cheers!

[rachely476]

Hi !
I've just visited this forum. Happy to get acquainted with you. Thanks.