Dear MJH,
Trying to PM you, but MCM system says your account is not accepting PMs. Can you PM or email me?
thanks!
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Dear MJH,
Trying to PM you, but MCM system says your account is not accepting PMs. Can you PM or email me?
thanks!
Jialing needs to offer you a 2011 model and it better not have flaming manifolds and stalling or they can or should consider leaving the industry.
If Jialing wants to build a respectable brand name, they need to “do the right thing” it is a matter of paying now or paying later.
The cost of research and development includes testing and in that real and actual resolutions implemented before the product enters the market. If not then the cost saved by cheating or short testing come back after the product is sold, the consumer is testing were Jialing did not and the results are bad.
Using the consumers as test bikes is bad business practices. That is the reputation you can today associate with Jialing.
"Doing the right thing" is investing in good faith and it pays back in folds, if not it damages in folds and that will drag Jialing down.
Put the People in the Peoples Republic first! else they will put you last!
Not willing to financially take care of bikes with stalling issues now, might result in bad publicity and disappointing sales in Brazil (paying later). But in this case I doubt they realise that the disappointing sales were caused by their way of handling issues in the domestic market!Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
Yes, the objective would be to let them understand the link between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
I would say Jialing is paying attention, and should offer retrofits to the bikes. That would or should be done through authorized servicing centers, then those established authorized centers would likely also sell the bikes if they see them as stable and reliable.
If Jailing is to manage these bike in the market (well) that could actually theoretically double the current domestic sales. That because the service centers that see them taking responsibility will become promoters of the bikes. People value the opinions of mechanics, that being when a mechanic tells them it is good and also well supported it make people feel confident to buy the motorcycle.
Then also the opinion of the owner matters, when people ask , “how do you like it” or “where did you buy it” and also “where do you get it serviced” it all leads back to the service center and then sales happen.
It is important that the service centers have technicians trained on the EFI and have the tools needed to diagnose any problems. Each problem addressed with the factory then resolved through engineering.
Eventually the motorcycle has no problems and sales increase and the technician become more knowledgeable on the model.
“Doing the right thing” comes with rewards.
MJH, Jialing probably won't do the right thing. This is because they are a government owned company. They know that Chinese people aren't really able to complain about them, which means they think they can do whatever they like. They also think doing whatever they like comes with their job, because they used family connections bought their way into this company to get in a government job where they do very little, paid well and get lots of freebies like an apartment, early retirement, health and pension. The power structure also exists in dictatorial system where if you disagree with the ideas of the leadership, this is because you are to stupid to possibly understand their 'genius' work methods and strategy. The people who get to the top are not the best people at running a company just those who are better at playing the game of climb the greasy pole. If you work for Jialing and you really love motorcycles it would probably be even more frustrating than being their customer.
What would be the best markets in china for Jialing to set up sales and support centers, it seems like a potential patchwork with consideration to all the areas that banned motorcycles.
It will be interesting to see how well Suzuki support the GW250 in china.
Based on how few of the JH600 are actually being sold in china,Jialing has lots of opportunity to expand those JH600 sales, but they have to address technical support in the field, all manufactures offer technical training. It stems from or out of engineering and is managed through operations.
Its the operations manager that brings it all together, an operations manager answers directly to a chief executive. So that is only one person to have to play golf with, should not be all that challenging. That executive has to choose a genius and give the genius free reign, better yet a big fat budget to work with and authority over all subordinate positions.
I agree MJH, and your last several posts on this topic have been spot on, but... you'd need to have the entire company attend an MBA for them to appreciate the relevance of any of it, and that is where the whole concept falls apart. It ain't likely to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
All great conjecture in theory, but none of it is likely to happen any time soon. Basically what you describe is a foreign concept, lost on the local majority what with their kow-tow, gumbei and cultural overtones. For the local majority Jialing have a mammoth task to overcome which is a prejudice for most things that are locally produced (and for very good reason based on my decade of experience in China). Not a small undertaking, to convince a highly suspicious market that the Jialing brand is associated with highly desirable and quality attributes... an undertaking that wouldn't seem to be in Jialings' best interest from THEIR perspective being a state owned/financed enterprise (you will need to put on cultural glasses to get the whole view from their side). Hypothesis all you want, isn't likely to make it happen. Rather than pasting a wish list and a 'how to win, influence and retain customers' on this website, you'd likely get slightly better results from finding out who is the GM/CEO/Technical slash Development managers and craft a well worded culturally appropriate letter and sending it to those concerned at Jialing. After all it may very well be, that the people that matter and need to be influenced are completely unaware of the ongoing JH600 stalling saga. Besides which there is slight to little or no chance of them reading anything here.
This is the very reason I took the time, and visited CFMoto about my Jetmax concerns though I didn't get to meet the right people or persons at CFMoto, I now know where the company is located and have some insight into the operation and company culture. I also was able to walk away from that visit with a list of contacts, as well as some part replacements, and more.
As an aside, though still on topic... there is a very clever motorcycle mechanic based down here (Zhenhai) who has diagnosed little things on my and a friends Jetmax - e.g. failed sensor notifications (ECU) attributed to faulty sensor themselves or in one case shorted wiring. He has the required skills, knowledge and well rounded logic that appears lost on many other so called mechanics in China I have used and seen in operation in the past. If one of you SH based lot want I could attempt to check if your folks stalling JH600's is something he might consider working on to try and understand what is the route cause. Quick question though, when you lot with these stalling JH600's have been into authorised repair centres (and I use the term loosely - we are in China after all), have they been plugging in a ECU diagnostic device into the ECU?
I cannot help but recall a local Chinese friend (an avid photographer and a Chinese university professor) who has (and has been trying to sell) a JH600 first edition model, that he had some problems with, including a complete front end rebuild under warranty. When I mentioned to him that I was considering a JH600 purchase 1-2 years ago, he asked why, how much, what for... when I told him the price at the time, which was around CNY35000, he laughed in a very Chinese way and said the JH600 wasn't worth anything more than CNY7000 and that I should not buy one. I listened carefully and weighed up the bias likely in his advice (however he had a JH600 and I hadn't) and I have learnt that sometimes the locals are right (not often, not always - but sometimes). The majority of local Chinese think that anything foreign has got to be ten times better than anything made locally, and I tend to agree. It MAY NOT always be the case, but it would certainly be so in the majority. Given that there is an increasing awakening, increasing wealth, increasing sense of self importance, increasing demand, increasing GDP and increasing squeezing of profit margins, increasing numbers of factories closing... shortcuts, cost cutting - call it what you will... there's an inevitable consequence of buying/doing business in China. Look beneath the wrapping, for nothing is at seems in PRC. To get rich is glorious! (he who reaches his first bucket of gold has achieved success no matter how one got it).
Just my ten cents worth... anyway for some light comic festive relief... please enjoy <- click for light hearted entertainment
Not wane get involved in the commercial part of this case, just some technical aspects I want to let you know.
I did some more checking on Milton's bike the last days.
He is on holiday right now, and kindly left the bike with me for some further fiddling.
As you all know, we went from a very frequent stalling bike (in September) to a stall free / almost stall-free bike under the right conditions.
However, due to the limitations I have on overriding the system,
I can only adjust the fuel injected by rough steps.
Still I tried to fine-tune this in the last days, and some longer test riding did not bring any stalls yesterday.
However, as the weather gets colder again, I suspect some stalling might return.
I am however not able to add enough fuel for these colder conditions, without upsetting the running of the engine in other area's.
To conclude the technical investigation, and leave it further up to you guys, herewith the final conclusions:
1. There is surely a ''hard spot'' in the ECU mapping, which is most clear by the idle stall,
2. This "hard spot" also creates the stall at "stopping", as mentioned before,
3. If the mixture is too lean, this causes the stalling, as the engine does not have enough momentum to keep running,
4. A richer mixture helps the engine to overcome the hard spot, or eliminate it,
5. Some of the external sensors are not fully calibrated to compensate for the changes they are measuring (like the outside air sensor should signal the ECU to enrich if the temperature drops, but it seems the mixture is not enriched enough below 5C degree). This is a pure mapping issue.
6. I still don't believe that disconnecting the camshaft sensor should have influence on the issue. :icon10:
From above technical considerations, I can only advise you to push for a upgrade to version 3.0.
Not because this should be better, but as it will allow you to make necessary changes in the mapping, which can't be done in the version 2.0.
If you are not able to obtain this version 3.0, tweaking the present system carefully, can still improve your bike dramatically (as proven on Milton's bike).
It will prevent most of your stalling under normal riding conditions, I am pretty sure about that.
I made my case, good luck with it!
Eric
Dear Bikerdoc,Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
This is precisely the gist of our gripe: That Jialing has not accepted that in selling a relatively advanced EFI bike they MUST establish competent service centers to keep their customers happy and safe and riding. The "authorized service center" in Shanghai is a crappy Changjiang 750 repair shop -- your typical rat's nest of old parts chaos with a couple of guys squatting in the grease doing half-assed repairs, which is mostly guesswork when it comes to EFI. No, of course they don't have an ECU diagnostic device; this is precisely what we are demanding that Jialing provide to its service centers. But up to now, for those who are still under warranty, Jialing will only deign to swap out this part or that, or disconnect the cam position sensor, and wash their hands of us.
Hence MJH's thoughtful and instructive ideas on what Jialing could and should do to develop a genuine home market.
I do read the Chinese forums, and while there is some skepticism among Chinese motorcyclists about domestic brands -- and a lot of unjustified foreign brand worship -- there are plenty of intelligent riders who covet the JH600 and would love to buy one -- if they felt they would get decent after-sales support. Jialing needs to bite the bullet and do this.
Out in southwestern China, there actually are Jialing authorized service centers -- lots of them -- but these focus almost exclusively on their smaller bikes. You'll never see a JH600 in one of these shops, and when I've dropped in for an oil change or other service, the guys often say this is the first JH600 they've seen.
Jialing went to the trouble to develop a very nice bike, but perhaps they never thought for a second about selling it inside China; it's purely an export play for the likes of Traxx (which Jialing owns). The Brazilian forums do contain many mentions of Traxx being Jialing's springboard into the US market, which tells you just how far Jialing's thinking is from the "home market".
If only Jialing would have a look at the Harley shops springing up all over China, and smell the coffee. There is a big market in China for well-engineered, well-supported big recreational bikes here. But it takes some work and investment. With a proper strategy like that outlined by MJH, Jialing could flourish in China, learn what makes recreational and adventure bike riders tick, and do so with a huge home-court advantage that would radically improve their odds of success in Brazil or America or anywhere else.
cheers
It is pretty safe to say that Jialing is conservative, read this article to get an idea how that motorcycle will be received in a global market…but only imagine that as way worse.
http://sobremotos.solupress.com/sobr...small11661.jpg
It is pretty safe to say the target market is one that is starving for an affordable option, then hopefully in that they will fall all over themselves for the lower price. Then only subsequently only expect to be treated like a red headed step child there after. . That would be my honest perception of the potential status of the JH600 in any market with consideration to it real actual current marketability.
It obviously has to be technically supported and ideally it should be very reliable, if they can get it stable and keep it that way…then for the gods sake alter its appearance. I am sure some people can get past the looks, but when I see the advertisement that Jialing ran for the bike and hear a woman’s voice softly whispering “it is like a dream” I could only think one mans dream is another hundred thousands men’s nightmare.
My suggestion for a face lift….
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1350/imag0130.jpg
I am grasping…seriously how desperate is any market for a lack luster affordable adventure bike? If it is looking for some appeal and that is what drives sales, then make it look like something that you would expect to see ridding through a desert….then it would be grand if it actually could.
It will be interesting to see what bike version rolls out the TRAXX door here in Brazil. I have not seen how much of the JH600 will be manufactured here but for sure it will not be 100%. So what parts will be shipped in, 2010, 2011 or 2012?
It does seem as if the people at TRAXX do have the right consept for after sales service. I would hope that would handle something like the stall issue differently than there Chinese counterparts.
TRAXX is expanding here in Brazil but slowly. There are only one or two dealers in the south part of the country at this time so if them want to caputre market in the south they will definetly need to have a service network. Not many folks here work on what the ride or drive.
Hi, sorry for answering so late in this important thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by 998S
You are right! Indeed, the lengthening of the chain shifts the timing of the camshaft backwards compared to the ideal moment governed by the crankshaft/piston. It was my assumption that this amount of lengthening could be neglected, but as said here clearly by Euphonius the ECU's software goes a long way in trying to compansate for these mechanically induced errors. So, I learned that it may not be neglected.
Still, our June 2011 JH600 does not have the camshaft sensor anymore. It may have stalled 2 times in 2.000 km, but I guess more to the very lean mix setting. Will try to set it a bit richer coming spring and see what happens.
Anybody in this forum replaced an "old" chain and what happened to the stalling behaviour? (Did not yet read all posts following this one...)
Dear Bart,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Sanders
Thanks for this post, but you've raised an important question in my mind: What is the method by which you plan to make the fuel mix richer? To my knowledge, the fuel mix is 100% controlled by the ECU. The ECU, as we've discussed ad nauseum, is not serviceable by the owner, or even by the dealer or certified service station, since no one has the calibration tool and/or software to do this. Some of us suspect that not even Jialing has these essential calibration tools due to some kind of unresolved differences with Bosch.
There is a screw on the side of the throttle body, but please please please do not confuse this with an idle controls screw. Mess with that screw and you will send your ECU into a fit of confusion and it will respond by seriously messing with your fuel/air mix. This has happened to several bikes here because local mechanics who have zero understanding of EFI have never seen a screw that they did not feel an obligation to turn. That adjuster on Motokai's bike was dialed back so that it no longer had any contact with the throttle valve, which then was getting stuck in the closed position. To our knowledge, that screw should never be adjusted, and is designed to stop the butterfly (throttle) valve a tiny 1-2 degrees short of full closure.
Now, given that you are driving toward dealer status in Europe, perhaps Jialing has come to its senses and provided for you a calibration tool with which you can perhaps make small adjustments and reset the ECU if necessary. That would be progress!
Good luck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeafar
They look to have dealers all over the country...http://www.traxx.com.br/novotraxx/revendas
Since they are asking 5.599.00 R for the 135cc dual sport you can bet they expect to get more then twice that for the JH600
Have not seen that part of the site for a while, seem thay have added a few here in the south. Problem is that are still a minium of 2 or 3 hours away.
I have seen somewhere the target price was well above 20,000 R (11,000 USD).
Prices here SUCK! The Occupy whatever groups need to come here if they want to protest greed. Starts with the guberment and works down from there.
Then the JH600 would be way cheaper then a Honda Transalp in every respect. It is hard to believe that people of Brazil are able to pay close to $5,000.00 for a Honda NXR150!
So here comes Traxx and their units do have to be at least assembled in Brazil so Traxx will pay assemblers what then $350.00 a month? If Traxx can offer a Brazilian minimum wages then they likely will. So you have a factory labor rate in China of $200.00 a month and an assembly rate of what in Brazil $350.00 a month, the parts have shipping costs and are taxed on import as well. Since the imported part have to be taxed and so does the labor and profits, it all should be public information, but surely it is not.
The quality of the parts are and will be as good as you get when you pay people peanuts to make them, that also holds true for the assembly and if the parts are cheaply made and they are, then the result are a marginally less expensive inferior product to the existing ridiculously expensive ones.
They probably are not paying minimum wages in Brazil in manufacturing, however, I wonder how much the cheapo Chinese are willing to pay for labor in Brazil? In other words why are they so costly, it is because once any economy incurs ridiculously high inflation, the greedy people refuse to ever take a cut to get it back down. You can call that the hurray for me and screw everyone else rule, consider asking a fat person to share their food or better yet try to convince them to just eat a little less. They will not and will get real defensive if you confront them on it.
Hey MJH, you the same fellow posting on one of the Brasilan bike forums?Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
I can not say what might be happening in Manuas as far as labor wages but here in the south they are on the rise for industral labor due to a labor shortage.
As to the import taxes (OUTRAGOUS) 60 to 120%, with a discount for item assembled here and a bigger discount if 60% of the item in fabbed here.
Also, the over inflated price of imported products due to the import taxes drives the greed. Example: the same ITEM A above competes with a Brazilian produced product. The imported produce see good sales even with it being OVERPRICED, the price for the local produced product will be priced somewhat below the imported product (even though the product quality is no where near the same) and way above what it should cost based on local labor, fabrication and material cost. So, again where is the extra profit going?
So it boils down to this, the top 1% (who can afford to pay the high price for quality products) prey on the rest who are forced to pay inflated prices (on inferior local produced products) for what they can't afford!
Yes, I did post on one of the forums, basically because Jialing left their JH600 owners in a bad place with their bikes. They basically used them as guinea pigs, testing the EFI and then letting the warranty expire before the problems they have with the bikes ever were resolved. Maybe they believe in a world of big numbers a few causalities will not get noticed? Its not right!
Jialing riders, Unite yourselves ...... You might even get a new bike :icon10:
http://www.carnewschina.com/2012/01/...aler-in-china/
I wonder if it is the GPS on board guidance system that nearly caused the accidents?
My JH600 suffered a few damages 3 weeks ago due to a getoff, the first in my 5-year incident-free riding history in downtown Shanghai. I was completly blameless, not injured and that the van that caused it ran off from the incident. Since I needed to replace many smashed parts, I decided to have Xiao Fan perform the ECU upgrade (from version 2.0 to 3.0) at the same time as well. Note that my JH600 was in great running condition after Eric's adjustment to the Throttle Position Sensor, which only costed a bit higher gas mileage. I am having the upgrade done due to the concern for the long term performance of the 2.0 ECU.
The upgrade steps are:
1. Take out the whole electric cable harness and replace it with a new 3.0 cable assembly(picture below).
2. Reconnect all the electric connectors to the new cable harness, and leave alone the Camshaft Position Sensor, which is now deprecated as previously reported.
3. Swap in the new ECU 3.0
4. Add a resistor to the instrument panel (otherwise the overheating light would not work correctly).
5. Pay for the parts and labor (around 1200 rmb)
The new cable harness:
http://hkqrsa.blu.livefilestore.com/...654.jpg?psid=1
The upgrade involves only 2 major parts, the ECU and the complete cable harness, but the work is extensive as the front/back fairings, gas tank,luggage rack and all the electric parts need be disassembled and reinstalled. It took almost a day for Xiao Fan to swap in the new cable harness, discovering only one difference (2 wires crossed) in the new harness from the old one. Actually, as far as we can tell, only the ECU connector has been redesigned. The rest of the wires and connectors are pretty much the same as the previous version. Although I haven't been able to road test it (due to an unrelated missing part), the upgrade seems to work well for the limited time (a few minutes) we exercised it in idle in the shop. It started right away without stall and stayed stable. Eric (thanks Eric) also commented that the engine under the new ECU is more responsive to gas without the "hesitation" sometimes experienced in the old ECU.
All in all, the upgrade so far has been uneventful but very promising. I need to wait until that new part comes in before I can road-test it. I shall keep my fingers crossed for its on-road performance. Should there be any unexpected issues, we may need to restore the ECU back to 2.0, as there is still no ECU diagnostic station available in Shanghai to help us. It's now just in the following unsightly shape:
http://hkqrsa.blu.livefilestore.com/...736.jpg?psid=1
Bear in mind that this bike may turn into a collectible as it is the first known upgrade attempt of this sort in the world. I will file a report again when the historical time comes to actually put it to test on Shanghai streets.
By the way, after spending one day watching Xiao Fan work the whole time, I have renewed my confidence in his ability to deliver the services and support for our JH600, to the extent the Jialing's factory support program would allow it. He is quite systematic and methodical, thinking through the process and looking up the manuals for the unexpected. His shop had been cleaned before the holidays, definitely not to the standard Mr. E demands, but a huge improvement nontheless. He even had ready a new tray (albeit too small, on top of that blue stool) to collect those parts taken off the bike. As far as replacing the new cable harness goes, this is the second time he has done it. If the upgrade on my bike turns out successfully, there should be no doubt he can replicate it to the next bike.
Cheers!
sorry to read about your crash! and subsequent damage to your motorbike. No chance that you got any of the license plate details off the offending vehicle as it sped away? Sounds as though the main wiring & ECU replacement have come about with an unfortunate aligning of the stars... at least the dark cloud has had a sliver lining, besides the weather hasn't been all that great... well at least not round here most days.
Thanks for your kind words. I actually had part of the license plate, but failed to connect to either 110 or 122 (traffic accidents). Both numbers gave me the endless circular messages. After a whole hour dialing in vain in freezing cold I finally gave up. The incident was close to a traffic light but beyond the range of any cameras. A potential witness refused to get involved like a plague. Luckily I was not injured. The lining of the stars was not all bad that day.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
Sorry to hear about the crash, very glad to hear you were not injured. I think you're taking the right attitude about it, letting it go rather than trying to get police involved at this point. I'm curious to know if your insurance here covers repairs at all?
Not at all surprised that getting through to report the incident was an exercise in Kafka. I always wonder about how well the streets really are being watched through police video cameras. Perhaps if you were to get through, some kind soul could review the area to see just what cameras were available that you might not have seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by milton
Dear Milton,
Add me to the list of friends breathing a sigh of relief that you were not seriously hurt. 998S informed me of your getoff only yesterday.
Good to know that Xiao Fan is getting his act together, and showing some competence with our bikes. Between him and Yang Jie and Dr Cui, our support situation is improving, even if it's all at arm's length from Chongqing. Eric was cautiously optimistic that the 3.0 ECU "fix" is a good one, though ultimately we remain vulnerable to problems if Jialing doesn't raise its game in after-sales support, and especially in out-of-warranty support.
I'm also impressed that the price of the 3.0 upgrade kit is relatively painless at 1200 RMB, which is probably about the difference in the bike's retail price between the JH600 and the JH600A. I can live with that.
To merge threads a bit, having now ridden the new 600cc from Qianjiang/Benelli, I'm still highly partisan to our JH600 dual sport, which in my view is a far more appropriate style of bike for anyone riding lots of km in this crazed country.
Hope to see you on your revivified Jialing soon!
cheers!
Hey Milton - Glad you are okay!
I've been in the US for the last 2 weeks - coming back end of FEB. Looking forward to replicating the ECU change when I'm back in town.
Seems I'm not missing much riding in Shanghai these days with the cold weather, but let's hope for some good riding days in March!
Finally got all the parts in and the bike upgraded and ready for road test on Saturday.
Did about 70km in 2 days, including a 20km stint on the mid-ring expressway. There has been no stalling at all. Not once. Also, it used to always stall 10 seconds after it's first fired up. Even that "start-up bug" is gone. Now the idling rpm stays very stable at 1700 under a great number of conditions in city riding.
Apart from solving the idling problem, the new ECU responds noticeably better to the throttle and the power has improved over all rpm ranges. It is a lot more fun to ride it than before. It used to hesitate and stumble at lower gears. Now it is reasonably smooth on all ranges, as good as a single cylinder engine can ever offer. The new 3.0 ECU works well with my "old 2.0 JH600", at least for now.
JH600A, the 2011 model with 3.0 ECU, comes with a new instrument panel. I did not replace mine, as Liu (刘志东) thinks that a simple mod with a resistor would make the old panel work with the new ECU. Now the overheating light would flash unexpectedly. We are still waiting for the recipe for the mod.
This is what I'd say about the upgrade:
1. My bike has over 20k on the clock. The performance of previous 2.0 ECU had deteriorated to the point of being nearly unridable. The new 3.0 ECU works quite well with the same set of existing or "old" ECU sensors. I can only attribute the improvement to the new 3.0 ECU program.
2. It is still not clear what Jialing would do to maintain the new ECU in the long run. The new ECU seems to tolerate the "aging" of sensors better, but the longer term stability is not guaranteed.
3. Being the brave sole for the first upgrade ever conducted in the land, I am getting a discount for the work with the final tab of 1350 rmb, including 200rmb labor. Xiao Fan did a great job. 刘志东 has been instrumental in getting the factory to respond and the discount. However, I am still upset for having to pay for the cost in fixing the factory/design defects. But TIC. I am just happy that it is fun again to hop on my JH600.
I'd also like to thank Eric for helping out before and during the upgrade.
Cheers!
I guess that was the rabbit out of the hat, upgrading the throttle for a pedal :icon10::icon10:Quote:
Originally Posted by milton
It is very good to hear that things are finally solved, and for that little money (remember, for those amounts mentioned, in the west they don't even have a look at a bike, let alone repair it), it is a no brainer.
Guess you made Motokai very happy just now.
It was great to contribute to this matter, and been able to help you a bit in finally getting it solved.
Enjoy your riding, and don't forget to pass by every now and then.
We still have the 1/2 bottle you brought, might be a good idea to hit that one on the good work :).
Dear Milton,Quote:
Originally Posted by milton
Many thanks for this excellent, thoughtful and ultimately happy update. The irony is that Jialing, stupidly in my opinion, has managed to finally get your bike to a level of acceptability while totally squandering a wonderful chance to improve its reputation. Instead, they still have at best a jury-rigged customer support system that leaves owners of their bikes deeply frustrated despite their huge size and influence.
For example, think about Lao Jia Hou in Beijing, who owns not one but two JH600s (a single and a sidecar) but is so disgusted with Jialing for its foot-dragging and excuse-making that he's determined to dump the bikes, and will never have a good word to say for the company. This is the same guy who, more than a year ago, offered to swap out the whole EFI system at his own expense to end his absurdly dangerous stalling problem -- precisely what you've managed now to do -- but was told by Jialing that this was impossible. That's right: Impossible. Can't be done. So were they lying? Or just lazy? Or just really, really insensitive stupid fucks?
Now, after a year of pressure, Jialing moves forward with precisely the fix that LJH proposed -- and not only can it be done, it works (at least for now)!
But stupid Jialing does not elect to come out and say, like a mature adult, "We are sorry for the problems experienced by owners of our bikes with the 2.0 EFI, but are pleased to announce that by working with our customers we've come up with an effective remedy."
Instead, they will allow the story to fester here in MCM and other forums about how this gigantic company refused and dithered and ignored and basically told their 2.0 customers to go fuck themselves rather than coming out and making things right. If Motokai or I or any other 2.0 owners want to update, presumably we'll have to go begging to them too, and then pay whatever it costs to rectify Jialing's own faulty design. OK, we're happy to have this upgrade path, but not happy about Jialing's cupidity.
These Jialing people seem to be simply too stupid, and too far removed from the actual consumers of their products, to know any better. This is why Chinese companies have virtually no recognized international brands, and no skills whatsoever in building long-term customer loyalty. In Chinese this is called 一锤子买卖 "doing commerce with a hammer" -- if you deceive or coerce a customer to make a sale, they'll never come back. Lao Jia Hou will never again buy from this company, and will speak only ill of Jialing, and everyone who knows about his frustrations with Jialing will keep their distance too. As they should.
Fucking geniuses up there in Chongqing.