JH600 stalling

Ok guys,

I have seen this and some other discussions going on, and just read the reply LJH received from Jialing.
Anyone long enough in China knows how things going, and I guess anyone who can read between the lines, now knows how Jialing is treating you.

I have also noticed that most of you reply to these things with a friendly, understanding and almost lay back attitude.
I guess a lot of you are teachers, or service industry related, and although I admire you for this (I wished I was more of it sometimes), you might consider to change attitude a bit.

If I was you, I should consult a Chinese lawyer, many of them have free consults just like in Europe.
I should, AS A GROUP, (and clearly stating all personal details of this group) have the lawyer send a clear letter to the management of Jialing, with registered mail.
In this letter, you should clearly mention what happened, but most important, clearly state that you (as many foreigners) will do everything to bring this whole matter into the international publicity. There are countries that are crying for these BADLY MADE IN CHINA stories right now, I know at least 2 journalists who would like to make a sweet story of it. Make it big to them, threat them, just don't be nice for one time.

Then, allow them to take official action, within a certain period of time.

I just give it a 50/50 percent chance, but it might work.
I myself was in these cases, talking about claims of 1 million plus.
I learned very quickly that all they say like not being mad, not shout, keep your posture, is BS if it comes so far.
Believe me, nothing works better then a mad foreigner in a directors office ..... let alone 20 of you :)

For further info, I will have one of the Jialings at my place next week.
I am afraid I can do not much, but at least I will have some quiet time to see how Jialing did things, and if we can invent perhaps an "overruling" device to trick the ECU.
No promise at all, just I will not give up, unless you all decide to sell your bikes...

Eric

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

The Beijing Service Center has informed us that the bike is "ready for pick up".

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So much for the auspicious day....

Man, that sucks! I don't understand a thing about ECU, but for my logic, if it was so easy as remapping the unit they would already have done that. (And the software thing is also not convincing... for sure there is some pirated copy of this software around).

My opinion (purely speculative) is that it's a design flaw, and just can't be fixed in an economical way by Jialing, and so they are just leaving this problem unsolved.

Best of luck to you all, JH600 owners! I wish I will be proved mistaken and this problem is solved before next riding season starts.

As for the "class action" I really don't thing it's a good idea. For my experience justice is a joke here, besides I think the competent court would be Jialing local court, anyone wants to guess the verdict will be favorable to whom?

Kust keep harassing them, post videos on youku, youtube, whatever... they may understand they better fix their lemon or forget the JH600 investment all together.

The only court that counts is the court of public opinion, and -- thanks in part to this website -- we as a "class" of JH600 owners do have some muscle that we should not hesitate to use. It's a bit awkward discussing a strategy here in a public forum, but I think we should have a strategy for making clear to Jialing that 1) we truly want them to succeed with this and other bikes and 2) we are ready and willing to take a very public stand if they try to sweep the JH600's problems under the rug.

We should think about asking, as a group of Chinese and expats, for a formal meeting with Jialing brass so that they can get a good understanding for this balance.

I don't buy the idea of "harassing" Jialing. But we are nowhere near a stage where we can say we've "engaged" them. To date, LJH has let the Beijing Service Center, a non-Jialing entity, do the talking. They have not had a group of fussy and angry and demanding owners in their office, and that's the next step in my opinion. I also hope we can persuade LJH to keep his bikes for this direct engagement, and perhaps have his exit be "getting a refund" rather than "selling the bike" in disgust and defeat.

Again, at risk of telegraphing strategy in a public forum, I think that we as a class can come up with ideas for how to escalate the pressure in perfectly legitimate ways without exposing ourselves to accusations that we are engaging in "harassment."

JH600 owners of China, unite!
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Yes, sorry for the poor choice of words.

By harassing I really meant to keep the pressure and stand your point. This level of stalling (as I've seen in the video) is NOT acceptable.

Nowadays people base their opinions to buy a certain product on reviews of other owners on the internet, and so far JH600 is not looking good. Keep up the pressure!

Exact, Euphonius, you got the point.
Although I agree with Marcomagica that any furhter legal action in CN is useless, a legal lawyer letter is an eye opener.
Common believe is that they can get away with it, and such letter is a kind of: "oh well, wow, what is this, what are they doing .....".
I personally can do nothing more on that part though, but I guess there will be ppl. who will pull this furhter. Euph. made a good start haha....

On a side note: LJH, can you do 2 things for me next time you are in the service station:

1. Can you confirm WHICH sensor they were pulling? the Air intake TEMPERATURE, the air intake PRESSURE, or the air MIXTURE (the CO sensor in exhaust).

2. Last time you told me on this fancy new mobile diagnostic reader they have. You said they can only pull errors, but can you check if they at least can zero (to 100%) the AFV (Adaptive Fuel Value). This is the thing which lifts the total fuel map higher or lower.
Even if you can not enter maps, normally you can reset this manually with the tester (needed if you do tests).

Eric

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Originally Posted by euphonius

But we are nowhere near a stage where we can say we've "engaged" them. To date, LJH has let the Beijing Service Center, a non-Jialing entity, do the talking. They have not had a group of fussy and angry and demanding owners in their office, and that's the next step in my opinion.

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I'm no expert, but here's something to think about.

Face...all of you guys know about it, so try to remember how important it is as you proceed.

You already admit that nobody has gone to the Jialing head office and had direct talks with upper management. This is critical when resolving issues with a large entity in China, especially if they are state owned. First you have to befriend them by stroking their egos and talking up the general amazing accomplishments of the Chinese people. Then you solidify the relationship via dinner, KTV, etc. Once you are brothers in arms, you then ask them to shower you in their wisdom and help solve your problem. Learn the key players and try to single out the one person who "does" things from those that "talk about" doing things. Once you have that person on your side, they risk losing face by not solving your problem. Not only with you, but also with their peers. If that fails, maybe give the pissed of foreigner thing a try, but I don't think it will get you very far. Remember, at this stage in the game, nobody at Jialing needs to solve this, they are going to continue selling plenty of bikes regardless of what you do.

I find it odd that none of this came up until recently, as there have been some other high mileage JH600's out there that didn't have this problem. Or maybe they did and those people just gave up on Jialing :confused1:

Cheers!
ChinaV

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

First you have to befriend them by stroking their egos and talking up the general amazing accomplishments of the Chinese people. Then you solidify the relationship via dinner, KTV, etc. Once you are brothers in arms, you then ask them to shower you in their wisdom and help solve your problem. Learn the key players and try to single out the one person who "does" things from those that "talk about" doing things. Once you have that person on your side, they risk losing face by not solving your problem. Not only with you, but also with their peers. If that fails, maybe give the pissed of foreigner thing a try, but I don't think it will get you very far.

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Wow, repairing a bike in China takes some serious work!
I usually go to extreme lenghts to get things done in China, but this?

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

they are going to continue selling plenty of bikes regardless of what you do.

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I wouldn't be so sure, especially if more videos of stalling and bad boards threads keeps popping out.
In fact, poor sales figures of JH600s could be the reason why it seems they don't give a crap. This bike is too expensive for chinese market, and too much of a problem to get it licensed (except Shanghai, Beijing and few other places).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

I find it odd that none of this came up until recently, as there have been some other high mileage JH600's out there that didn't have this problem. Or maybe they did and those people just gave up on Jialing :confused1:

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Yes, that's quite odd. However Jialing doesn't seem to be talking to his clients much. I wonder how long before they will engage in some serious talking and start taking this issues into consideration.

I would say that for the successful launch of this model abroad is essential they solve those problems. Export market for this bike is interesting for them, not China market.

My humble opinion...

Cheers,
Marco

Well, I view these forums as an excellent way for end-users to share their experiences. It is also great when others join in and offer assistance. Man, it sure beats those "bad-old-days" when everyone was in the dark (pre inter-webby).

In my own case, I purchased both bikes through the Beijing Service Center (not through CQ, as others have), and I have found the Service Center to generally be a reasonable group of people (keeping in mind, TIC).

I am also just an end-user who is busy with many different things. Although I would love to fly down to CQ and scream and yell, I really don't have the time. And anyone who has been involved in litigation knows that it is also a tiring and time-consuming process. For little old me, I just want my newish bikes fixed properly so that I can enjoy them. I like the bikes, but they are simply non-functional, at present. And the "fix" doesn't seem like rocket science ... these are, after all, just single cylinder motorcycles.

As for the impact Jialing's intransigence is having, I can document the loss of 10 sales - 8 by me (for a MC touring project), and 2 with friends. That is just for little old me. If any international importer/distributor is interested in the Jialing JH600, the business language of choice is English outside of China. Certainly, our end-user experiences (written in English) would be appearing in Google searches. There really isn't a lot of info out there about the JH600s, aside from what we have here. But I doubt Jialing has any idea we have this website.

Who knows, the penny might finally drop for some Jialing executive when the question is poised by a potential large overseas customer ... "what about the various problems that the end-users are having inside China?"

Now ... where were those BMW, Yamaha and Suzuki brochures? I need some bikes.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Now ... where were those BMW, Yamaha and Suzuki brochures? I need some bikes.

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Don't fotget Ducati, really perfect bike for China, only 200 HP Attachment 5761

My JH has very few km on it and it was only stalling a few times every ride I took. (which have not been very many unfortunately) I had a friend in the USA who replaced the 3 year old battery on my R1200GSA for me as I am going to the states in a couple of days and want to get a ride in. He used the wrong battery as the exact one was not available but then my red pig began stalling every few miles. He replaced the battery with the correct size and problem solved. I also heard this issue was discussed in ADVRider but I have not confirmed it.

My battery on my JH600 was not really holding a charge and needed to be jumped after a week or so. I figured what the hell and ordered a new yuasa battery for my JH and made a trickle charger out of an old computer power supply unit to get a 100% complete charge on it. I charged it overnight. I installed the battery and rode all day today with no stalling at all. I am not about to say this is a fix for anything other than a dead battery. I am just saying that after one day, I went from stalling periodically to zero stalls all day after installation of very fresh strong battery.

Food for thought and discussion maybe but of course maybe the goblins were away today watching F1?

Just thought I would mention it.