general thoughts about future of chinabikes

We are in the main enduro/dualsport and off-road enthusiasts here, yeah i know there are other interests. This is to my mind, in China, because they help on poor roads but also there has been world-wide fashion for the grunge image of such machines. Helped along with 'crusty demons' and the like certainly but for realistic reasons, lots of cheap models available worth the risk of experiment against the cost of big 4 machines. Now I do not pretend to care about actual statistics, this is perception. Trail riding has grown in Australia as a weekend hobby too. Yeah, lots of big BMW's and so on, but millions of dirt-bikes of all kinds worldwide, and quite a few more chinabikes on the road as well as off.

But is this all changing? I see many more scooters too, and moped types in the cities as well as all the road/sports models. We see chinabikes struggling to leave the 125 and 200cc range, not too many 250cc about, some in USA, some in China.

So what will happen next? I see the magazines full of 300/350/400 cc machines and reviews. We also have the EE3 thing meaning EFI with all the high tech problems for Chinese manufacturers. we have the major groupings of manufacturers seemingly controlled by the military with probably less consideration for market forces.

Far too many dealers/importers selling all sorts of mixed up variants, mainly 125 and 200 still, those that haven't disappeared or are 'out of stock' since the WFC.

Will China make the move to a market driven, well researched development and sales program, or having run out of models that meet latest ADR/EE3 and USA design rules classification, wil they just stop? They surely cannot take the Lifan/Loncin clones of jap. engines much farther especially with the demand for more power.

The internal Chinese market must be affected by the cities all closing down on motorcycle usage and I don't believe the few thousands of chinabike buyers outside of China, except maybe elsewhere in Asia, will keep the myriad companies and variations going.

Will we start to see a couple of good designs appear that conform to required emissions standards etc. or will it quietly all go away as they turn to or concentrate on cars?

Are we the lucky ones with our cheap workhorses, reasonably practical once sorted, and our willingness to experiment and modify, or are we going to be marginalised enthusiasts?

Hopefully someone will pick up the license for the Yamaha 450WF or similar, get some EFI tweaking sorted and we can progress, else I think we will be hunting for parts and repairs as these machines get to the ten of thousands of km and start to fall to bits.

Oh yeah, and I was chatting to a motorcyclist, a stranger, the other day when we parked alongside one another. He was a journalist and mentioned that he had heard that the government here and elsewhere worldwide, alongside of carbon taxes, is going to phase out all cars and bikes that don't meet or cannot be modded to meet, the latest standards. I suppose it is a gesture toward lower carbon emissions and global warming too little too late - but it would cause me a few problems!

Well, teenagers are more open minded in Finland for chinabikes. Older people just don't buy them except very small minority who does not care what other people think. I don't see that changing in next 10 years.

Price will matter more and more in coming years, but quality will ultimately trump price. What will probably be less and less sustainable is the endless tail-chasing by the big international brands to make "improvements" every year with which to allure new buyers. I'm thinking especially in the kilobike class. I don't have numbers, but I bet the KLR650 is still one of the top sellers in America, with barely any changes from when it was launched almost 30 years ago. OK, they did a redesign in 2007, but it's still basically the same carbureted bike.

If the Chinese manufacturers can find a way to make quality bikes at a reasonable cost, and avoid the extremely costly urge to get into these endless development and marketing cycles, they might win longterm loyalty and a sustainable market. But they have to start paying at least some attention to the customer.

And if EFI gives Chinabikes longer life, less maintenance hassle, better efficiency and power and cleaner emissions, I can live with that.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Price will matter more and more in coming years, but quality will ultimately trump price. What will probably be less and less sustainable is the endless tail-chasing by the big international brands to make "improvements" every year with which to allure new buyers. I'm thinking especially in the kilobike class. I don't have numbers, but I bet the KLR650 is still one of the top sellers in America, with barely any changes from when it was launched almost 30 years ago. OK, they did a redesign in 2007, but it's still basically the same carbureted bike.

If the Chinese manufacturers can find a way to make quality bikes at a reasonable cost, and avoid the extremely costly urge to get into these endless development and marketing cycles, they might win longterm loyalty and a sustainable market. But they have to start paying at least some attention to the customer.

And if EFI gives Chinabikes longer life, less maintenance hassle, better efficiency and power and cleaner emissions, I can live with that.

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I think many don't buy a bike. They buy "Honda" or "Suzuki". Or Ducati. The power of brand thinking is big.

There has been EFI bikes for long. However for some reason Chinese seem to be struggling with EFI and even Kawasaki struggled with EFI on KLX 250. I know about that story since I was about to buy KLX 250 EFI. EFI is fine if done right. But if not, huh, then it is helluva frustrating mess.

I just hope that we can get the Qingqi 200 motard/dirt bike here in the US for the unforseeable future via Qlink. I am welcoming the upcoming Qingqi 250 motard being offered by CCW. I hope that Pitster Pro continues with the 250 dirt bike and motard. Scooters, especially 50cc, are great commuters for busy urban areas. Some of the small 250cc cruisers/choppers/standards offered by the Chinese seem intriguing. I just hope the Chinese allow me to continue earning a steady living to be able to afford one of their bikes....:frump::jerkoff:

Interesting topic... I'm by no means an expert, but I've done quite a bit of research on the China motorcycle industry over the past 4 years and I am pretty confident what exists today is not sustainable. I believe China exports around 6M bikes a year, which is an astonishing number but 95% are 150 cc and below. These low technology bikes will eventually be made in the under developed countries who buy them today which will help drive their economies forward. Couple this with the fact the 80+ companies still manufacturing bikes in China spend virtually no money on R&D because they know anything they develop will immediately be copied by the 80 other guys. They are definitely "milking the cash cow" because those who are investing are doing so in other products (i.e. cars).

Despite all of this, I believe some where between 3 and 10 of these guys will survive and become the next generation of Honda's, Suzuki, etc. China has one tremendous advantage over the current MFG power basis of the US and Japan... a 1.1B supply of future domestic customers. Eventually motorcycles will come full circle and the Chinese cities will again open their doors to motorcycles because they will be scene as a way to relieve their massive congestion and parking issues instead of causing them.

I agree with PMI-Asia, it's definitely an unsustainable model. Until motorcycles come full-circle domestically and the industry is encouraged to develop new technologies, everything will keep spiraling downwards. It is amazing the sheer amount of manufacturers there are churning out the same low-tech machines. Even the companies that do seem to 'innovate' come out with stuff like the Shineray XY350ST-2E. I mean seriously what is that? And what market study thought there would be a consumer base for that?

It's all just a bunch of companies leeching. Sooner or later something has got to give!

I think the incredible number of new cars sold in China in China last year was 18 million and that will rise yearly this decade to up to 40 million a year. Unless they do somethng incredibly stupid, their brands will dominate world markets by then. All I can see GMC and so on doing to survive is to partner with them. They also sold 40 luxury cars worth a total of $22 million at the Beijing Motor show. Motorcycles were for peasants and peasants want cars. Of course they do! Few of us, except maybe some youngsters, some inner city dwellers and expats, have ONLY a m/c.

I stand by my original thoughts, maybe a few good ideas and models will come this year from the re-design shake-up, and yes a load of the older stuff will be dumped again in US, Aus., SA, South America etc. with or without dodgy papers. And then it will collapse. If the 3 to 10 companies PMI-A predicts last then we may get a few chinabikes but they will be already competitive in standard and similar in price with Jap and Austrian and other European brands. The existing brands will go into partnership deals and prices after an initial flurry of competition to see who is lkilled, will rise again. But so will standards and quality. We may get some cheap stuff from small makers in Phillipines or Thailand or perhaps India, that will be all.

Enjoy them while you can. I still think the nasty bit is what that journalist told me, emissions standards will be gradually applied retrospectivelly.

Certainly some manufacturers should be able to make "big name" of themselves. We had in Europe quite some bike and 50cc scooter type manufacturers but what is left now? If no China company is able to push it to "big name" that would be then mega fail.

(I by the way got first my motorcycle riding lisence. And car driving lisence years after that only because one employer wanted me to get it. Never have owned a car myself though.)

Both the automotive and motorcycle OEM's are putting out impressive volumes to meet the demand, but the vast majority are low technology serving the local market. To become a real global player you need to have technology. The true domestic brands Zongshen, Lifan, Geely are all trying to improve technology but don't have the time to do it on their own so they are left with buying it. I am not sure you can truly understand something you buy as well as something you develop on your own, but the Chinese don't have 30 years to develop and improve like the Japanese did. When the new Deeming finds his way to China then maybe they will emerge as a technology leader.

I think the market has two major levels, transportation and enthusiasts. The smaller lighter more fuel efficient dominate the transportation section. What people buy and were as in the actual real buying behavior over time year after year is important to consider. Price and availability and perception of quality are always a factors.

The manufacturing is ruled by economy of scale, so one factory often supplies the entire global demand of one product or model line. The factory that supplies the most popular models flourishes and if managed well endures over time.

Having the most popular models and also the most advanced manufacturing processes supports that efficiency. The more sold the more manufactured. Ideally it’s a JIT process, Just in Time means that as one is manufactured one is being sold and little variance exists. Then nothing sits around, nothing gets discounted no workers get furloughed.

Supply meets demand at a point of optimization, its most efficient when it is the best model for the least possible costs, it also then can command the market.

However the most powerful force on the market is that of consumer confidence and if rooted in what is real and not contrived the best for less will establish it place in the market. Slow and steady and directed is a matter of knowing what consumers want and in that what it is they typically buy in propensity and were.

I say that it’s a matter of meeting transportation needs and also offering models that can also appeal to a level of enthusiasts, that will not happen if quality is low and overall business systems are unprofessional.

Jialing is researching and developing an engine that meets the emission standards and offers good fuel economy and respectable acceleration…it’s a focus on the aspect of transportation.
http://en.jialing.com.cn/column/ I say that is a 125cc and the main engine in the industry. Larger engines and adventures up into an enthusiast market and those may eventually be manufactured in china but I would not expect the prices to ever be considered low, they will likely be high as the rest of the global market prices. Why would or what incentive is there to produce and sell for less in china a model that can be sold into other markets for higher profits?

If your expecting a discount performance model coming from china…do not hold your breath. They will eventually and may be already manufacturing higher priced models for other manufactures being sold globally, your just not going to get access to those in china for lower prices.

However overall they can keep costs down in the overall market…but that does not seem to be lasting and eventually prices in china will inflate they for the most part are already.

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Originally Posted by MJH

However overall they can keep costs down in the overall market…but that does not seem to be lasting and eventually prices in china will inflate they for the most part are already.

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Yeah, and when Chinese prices meet Japanese and European prices trademark value is what begins to count in buying decisions. Chinese have very long way to go before they have value in their bike trademarks even close to Japanese/EU trademarks value.

Edit: Trademark value by the way have some interesting things. One could say "I plan to buy a HD" but you don't hear people saying "I plan to buy a Suzuki". HD thus appears to be The Bike.

Edit: Actually those who say "I plan to buy a HD" are not buying a bike but status and a dream of lifestyle. However, that just tells more how far behind Chinese are in trademark value.

Jialing has contracts they I believe have their factories manufacture all of Honda equipment lines, like snow blowers and leaf blower and generators.

The problem at hand and it’s a big one is that other factories may be making products based on the designs of those and acting as other OEM’s for other brand names.

Going into china with a design in hand….then manufacturing it there for less and commanding a significant market share often leads to that shrinking down and while other brands replace that share…only problem is that the others are using designs that are yours.

Many of these scenarios never get addressed, that’s because as they initially have such huge profits and market share they are not willing to call the foul and often satisfied with a smaller share in the end and have already made huge profit initially.

However it is theft it is what is called white collar but not really any different then stealing the actual product and then selling it. The victims are the corporations and their share holders, which cannot really see it and often are just people that are not really concerned about it, they often change jobs and often have no conscious beyond their own individual gains. I would not be surprised to read eventually they find out some on both sides take bribes not to say anything.

It is all a good lessen in karma, why invest time and energy to develop new and better if somebody will simply take it and replicate it and use it in the market against you. They can and do undercut you since they have no costs to recover for the initial development.

So you also have new technology and old technology, in that what is intellectual rights and what was but the rights have since transpired.

So in that what is created new to meet new standards can and should have protected rights in the market and in that define a new market place. If the new standard is smooth and crisp acceleration with better fuel economy and less emissions, then those that meet that standard first can get an economy of scale to justify production and if the volume is high the price can be kept low.

If production is set to meet the highest standards of the collective global standard, then all production meets and exceeds a collective global standard. In that it limits imports and if efficient wins in a global export market.

I would say having the highest standards for fuel efficiency and also lowest emissions is appropriate for china since it posses the biggest or largest position as a consumer of fuel and also related emission gasses.

Then through attrition old models leave the market and new models and suppliers replace them. I say the result would be lots of more efficient small displacement models and perhaps higher end foreign models domestically manufactured.

They will have to get handle on intellectual property rights as it’s double edged sword.

Chinese have to let the value of their trademarks to grow. It depends on them on what way the trademarks will grow. At the moment Chinese bikes are not bad. I think during '60s much worse bikes were made. So if they keep pushing into this quality & affordability direction then eventually their trademarks will be acknowledged as such. That might be the first step. Later different brands could push their trademarks even further and fill the envelope, so to say, and make China an established MC manufacturer.

Marketing in Chinabikes could do also some rethinking. At the moment Chinese appear to be clueless of what is general opinion of oriental products and especially of Chinese made. For me as long as I remember, that is at least from '80, Made in China was equal to very bad crap. Things has changed a little novadays though in a way that Made in China equals cheap and not necessary very bad, and if the product have Western or Japanese brand it can equal good.

Now what are the brand names Chinabikes use? Lifan, Skyteam, Galaxy, Qinqi (? lol I don't even know how it is written), that is they are either some very strange kinda lame names (Galaxy, Skyteam) or they are names which give associations of Made in China = bad. It is obvious the brand name for western markets should not be lame or equal to bad.

Now, where is the creativity? Where is the insight? Made in China equals bad but that is not what China in general is considered to be. China is oriental mystic, adventure, and peace of mind. Chinese letters are so cool people make tattoos of them. Why not focus on branding on strenghts instead of weaknesses. So instead of making a brand Hoyzungu make a brand [insert some exotic Chinese character or characters here], which have a cool meaning in Western world, possible something on the axle oriental, adventure, strenght, peace of mind.

Invest on quality and marketing, and profit. Take a short cut to the respected brands and don't lag with the rest of the Chinabike manufacturers.

They could use Chinese symbols like 东方 but keep in mind if you convert it to Latin symbols that conversions is based on phonetics and pronounced dōngfāng but the meaning is that of literally the word oriental.

Xīngxì is a Latinized phonetic translation for 星系, which translates to galaxy.
市建设 is Jianshe which translates to municipal construction and is pronounced Shì jiànshè.

So if the symbols are utilized then the translation would inevitably ensue and it would still not always make any sense in western culture.

You would have light cavalry for Qingqi, municipal construction for Jianshe…but Jialing does make sense as it is consistent 嘉陵 is Jialing and is pronounced Jiālíng and it has no other meaning, its like Honda it's a word that represents a brand name and has no other meaning.

It’s best to IMO make up Chinese words then it is to make up English names, it worked for Honda….it took some time for people to get used to the name but they did eventually and you know there are morons in the west that may not even know that Honda is Japanese, seriously some people will tell you straight up…they have no idea what nation holds the corporation.

Lol now you must be hyperboling me. Surely adult normal people must know Honda is Japanese.

But the idea with Chinese symbol was that it would be something related to images of China and it would preferably have multiple positive meanings or interpretations either in Chinese or in English or in both languages. It could also mean in English something like "shogun" or "samurai". I know those are Japanese terms but I don't know Chinese culture to say actual Chinese examples. Something else anyway that "ZingZong".

The Chinese character would be both company logo and name of the company.

But if it is really impossible to do that kind of "original chinese brand" then no can do. There is always the traditional "lets wait untill generations of people change" and new whatever brands establish themselves.

(I know of those Japanese brands having difficulties too and Japanese even having copycat reputation. However the point in Chinese character was creativity and insight and not copycatting. It all started when I criticised copycatting and tunnel thinking and called for creativity, and thus I had to put out some creativity myself because it is usually better to come up with some examples instead of just criticising. + Japanese spent time in their economical world domination. China can do that too, but it can possibly take even more time, and that was the problem, and why do it copycatting when you can do something more creative? If western world can make brands out of their names and in Latin alphabet, why Chinese could not do the same with their alphabet when Chinese have it cool to the point people want to use it in tattoos. Chinese alphabet is cool and gives good vibrations instead of bad vibrations of bad quality like Zongzen etc does.)

Words do have actual real meanings, the use of Latin is often nothing more then a bridge based on phonetics translations. I used examples of actual Chinese characters and then converted them and any use of them inevitably gets translated, other wise outside of china they would be the brand with an unpronounceable symbol.

But I get it I’d personally be fine with a Chinese characters on my bike…it just would not work well on the forms at the BMV, the clerks are already challenged. The insurance companies would also struggle with a quote on a 星系.

Hey keep in mind I am a big fan of Heiwa and that translates to (Peace) 平和,

Which do you think would be a better brand name in Finland for a line of motorcycles?

Rauha
Peace
Heiwa
平和

I’d be fine with only 平和 on the bike and they can use any of the above on the paper work. But for advertising they have to choose one and in that the symbol could be lost?

So my point is if it translates across linguistic then it eliminate bad juju IMO.

Be careful asking were you can buy a (if in china) Dongfang…..or asking; were can I can get a part for one or service one, or worse... say you own one, it could freak them out, if not piss people off. It could also be problematic asking about Dongfang motorcycles since it is asking for oriental motorcycles and pretty much covers all of them.

The brand Sony was manufactured so that it would be easy to say in any language. Smart folks there. Honda is not a great example, since it's written 本田 in both Japanese and Chinese and pronounced bunn tyan in Mandarin -- a far cry from "honda"! And the two characters in 本田 do have meanings (root and field), though no one thinks of those two ideas when hearing or reading the word 本田.

I'm curious how you folks far away from China pronounce Qingqi! Dongfang is probably mispronounced in America (dahng fayng rather than doeng fahng). Zongshen, anyone? Or Xingyue? (By the way, why isn't the Xingyue XY400GY-2 available in China?

Jialing is a lovely brand. It's easy to pronounce by most anyone (though some languages have trouble with L/R). It sounds authentic and recognizable to Chinese ears when spoken by non-Chinese speakers. And it's named after one of the two rivers that flow together in Chongqing, the other being the Yangtze, which is known to Chinese as the Changjiang.

ChinaV is right -- we need to get out riding.......

straight of the top of my head, ching kwee - tsong shen - jzing way - sjee aling

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Originally Posted by jape

straight of the top of my head, ching kwee - tsong shen - jzing way - sjee aling

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Each of these links has a "listen" button where you can hear the words pronounced in standard Mandarin.

Qingqi = cheeng chee. the Q is called a sibilant and to do it right the tip of your tongue is behind your bottom front teeth so it's highly aspirated. It's aways followed by a high vowel.

Zongshen = dzung shunn. the Z is is not unlike the Z sound in english but it has a hard start -- an affricate as opposed to a fricative.

Xingyue = Hseeng yooeh. Like the Q, the X is sibilant, tip of tongue behind lower front teeth.

Jialing = jyah ling. Truth be told, J is also a sibilant.

Pinyin is not hard to learn, but there are several letter and combinations that are conventions for sounds that do not exist in English/western languages. So you have to learn them, rather than just speak them as if they were English.

The beauty of Q and X are that they have no innate sound in English, so they can be conveniently assigned to sounds in Chinese that don't exist in English/Western language. The danger is that folks see Q and X and relate them to western/English words in which they appear, like queen or xylophone. Unfortunately, those both fail!

Class dismissed.

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Originally Posted by MJH

Words do have actual real meanings, the use of Latin is often nothing more then a bridge based on phonetics translations. I used examples of actual Chinese characters and then converted them and any use of them inevitably gets translated, other wise outside of china they would be the brand with an unpronounceable symbol.

But I get it I’d personally be fine with a Chinese characters on my bike…it just would not work well on the forms at the BMV, the clerks are already challenged. The insurance companies would also struggle with a quote on a 星系.

Hey keep in mind I am a big fan of Heiwa and that translates to (Peace) 平和,

Which do you think would be a better brand name in Finland for a line of motorcycles?

Rauha
Peace
Heiwa
平和

I’d be fine with only 平和 on the bike and they can use any of the above on the paper work. But for advertising they have to choose one and in that the symbol could be lost?

So my point is if it translates across linguistic then it eliminate bad juju IMO.

Be careful asking were you can buy a (if in china) Dongfang…..or asking; were can I can get a part for one or service one, or worse... say you own one, it could freak them out, if not piss people off. It could also be problematic asking about Dongfang motorcycles since it is asking for oriental motorcycles and pretty much covers all of them.

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Bad juju is bad.

I did not know Dongfang has some meaning. I just wrote it on the fly. Surprised though it can mean oriental motorcycles so I think I must have read it from somewhere with translation but just can't remember it at all.

Does the word "oriental" have some negative loads in China?

Heiwa would be the best in Finland. It is not bad word for trademark in Finland. It doesn't have those Z characters.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

The brand Sony was manufactured so that it would be easy to say in any language. Smart folks there. Honda is not a great example, since it's written 本田 in both Japanese and Chinese and pronounced bunn tyan in Mandarin -- a far cry from "honda"! And the two characters in 本田 do have meanings (root and field), though no one thinks of those two ideas when hearing or reading the word 本田.

I'm curious how you folks far away from China pronounce Qingqi! Dongfang is probably mispronounced in America (dahng fayng rather than doeng fahng). Zongshen, anyone? Or Xingyue? (By the way, why isn't the Xingyue XY400GY-2 available in China?

Jialing is a lovely brand. It's easy to pronounce by most anyone (though some languages have trouble with L/R). It sounds authentic and recognizable to Chinese ears when spoken by non-Chinese speakers. And it's named after one of the two rivers that flow together in Chongqing, the other being the Yangtze, which is known to Chinese as the Changjiang.

ChinaV is right -- we need to get out riding.......

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They do that a lot with car types. For example Toyota Corolla. They need to research it doesn't have any bad associations in any countries they sell it.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Each of these links has a "listen" button where you can hear the words pronounced in standard Mandarin.

Qingqi = cheeng chee. the Q is called a sibilant and to do it right the tip of your tongue is behind your bottom front teeth so it's highly aspirated. It's aways followed by a high vowel.

Zongshen = dzung shunn. the Z is is not unlike the Z sound in english but it has a hard start -- an affricate as opposed to a fricative.

Xingyue = Hseeng yooeh. Like the Q, the X is sibilant, tip of tongue behind lower front teeth.

Jialing = jyah ling. Truth be told, J is also a sibilant.

Pinyin is not hard to learn, but there are several letter and combinations that are conventions for sounds that do not exist in English/western languages. So you have to learn them, rather than just speak them as if they were English.

The beauty of Q and X are that they have no innate sound in English, so they can be conveniently assigned to sounds in Chinese that don't exist in English/Western language. The danger is that folks see Q and X and relate them to western/English words in which they appear, like queen or xylophone. Unfortunately, those both fail!

Class dismissed.

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That's so cool. I'm sure I'm not the only one who are so impressed. :thumbsup::clap::clap:
ps I guess i wouldn't surprise anyone for speaking English, but i feel incredible for a foreigner fluent in Mandarin.

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Originally Posted by td_ref

That's so cool. I'm sure I'm not the only one who are so impressed. :thumbsup::clap::clap:
ps I guess i wouldn't surprise anyone for speaking English, but i feel incredible for a foreigner fluent in Mandarin.

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TD, if you knew how long I've been speaking Chinese you'd be less impressed. Considering that I've been speaking longer than you have, my Chinese is pretty mediocre!

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Originally Posted by euphonius

The brand Sony was manufactured so that it would be easy to say in any language. Smart folks there. Honda is not a great example, since it's written 本田 in both Japanese and Chinese and pronounced bunn tyan in Mandarin -- a far cry from "honda"! And the two characters in 本田 do have meanings (root and field), though no one thinks of those two ideas when hearing or reading the word 本田.

I'm curious how you folks far away from China pronounce Qingqi! Dongfang is probably mispronounced in America (dahng fayng rather than doeng fahng). Zongshen, anyone? Or Xingyue? (By the way, why isn't the Xingyue XY400GY-2 available in China?

Jialing is a lovely brand. It's easy to pronounce by most anyone (though some languages have trouble with L/R). It sounds authentic and recognizable to Chinese ears when spoken by non-Chinese speakers. And it's named after one of the two rivers that flow together in Chongqing, the other being the Yangtze, which is known to Chinese as the Changjiang.

ChinaV is right -- we need to get out riding.......

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Its a surname or a brand name, HONDA... pronouced Bentian

Smith is pronouced how Shimsi, broken out its history close sri lanka or 史密斯

The root symbols separately are not related to the formed word. Each word has a symbol or set of symbols for new words....lol learning Chinese never ends even for the Chinese.

The point is that a Big Mac in china is a Big Mac not a Jù wú bà…the actual symbols for a Big Mac stand for Huge No Hegemony ….silly and made up? makes me wonder...who the heck makes up the words they use?

The attempts to bridge with Latin does not work the creation of new words often result in nonsense. The Chinese will take over….that’s humorous and when will that occur? When they all speak English?

Actually the phonetic translation are not reliable and done overtime primarily is in the 1950’s…think about it…but do not strain yourselves. The symbols that represent single words are at about 7,000 then venture into combo symbols, that also represent single words and an average Chinese comprehends about 20,000 to be literate?

The translation is not always easy and in some cases simply does not exist.

Its an ancient language and to be honest not very practical, you can be sure that the recent progress in Chinese society is directly correlated with English comprehension.

Chinese "alphabet" and stuff appears to be more like art. It makes no sense if you need to study "alphabets" four years before you can begin to study grammar.