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Chongqing Yingang Group Motorcycles has just launched two motorcles models
1. On/off-road YG150X
Yingang X series will be the new platform for on and off road motorcycles with full-sized chassis,
engine from 125 to 250cc, and with cross model and supermoto model.
2. Street version YG250NF
250cc DOHC 4V, water cooling, 6 speeds, Electrical Fuel Injection.
Below are YG250NF pictures:
Attachment 6888
Here you have a manufacture that is being forced to offer something (EFI) into a market that is reluctant as in it has apprehension to accept that forced technology.
How do they prove that the technology used within the implementation is good, it goes beyond simply saying it is good.
If something is bad and you then claim it as good…you take steps backwards. If you are open to or transparent in accountability then what happens if the product is not in fact good? You then take the steps forward to make it better, you disclose that in what and how, identification, solution, implementation.
Planting people in websites to promote interest, is mischievous at best, if the product is not vetted it is then even worse as it is actually then maniacal
Fifty motorcycle assigned to fifty owners that are tracked through fifty service centers. The results documented and then analyzed, what is the probability of any failure and then the response and resolution times. If the numbers are bad then you go back to the drawing board, you do not keep selling, forward is just that and those watching can see progression as it is happening.
That is supposed to happen before the launch…..then the numbers are brought under statistical process control before the launch, perfection is the ever evasive goal.
The only valid way to address apprehension is due diligence and in a manner that is open, honest and sincere.
Samples are tests, they test the probability of an event. Good is the lowest probability of failure, it is not something glazed over with empty promises and flattering expressions.
There are serious problems with Chinese companies, alas motorcycle manufacturers suffer from the worst excesses, hi tech computing and cell-phone manufacturers have the least problems.
These problems are essentially culturally definable to mainland China.........
-Cultural problem that many businesses are at least partially government owned, therefore trying to please party bosses, not customers (Jialing).
-Cultural problem that many businesses are at least partially government owned, therefore customers are not inclined to complain as much as they would if foreign imported goods fall below expectations.
-Profit motive is very strong and there is a massive temptation to cut costs using substandard metals and parts in manufacture, shoving bikes out the door with little or no QC to fill orders.
-Profit motive is very strong and there is a massive temptation not to R&D products properly.
-Motorcycles are seen as low and unimportant, many technicians aren't well trained and the industry has few innovators, and can't attract good engineers.
-Mainland Chinese tendency to sweep problems 'under the carpet' or 'bury their head in the sand', rather than apologizing for mistakes or defects (face saving)(Jialing).
-A massive population gives companies the impression that customer satisfaction doesn't matter because another customer will be along soon, so customer service is a low priority.
-Some Chinese companies think that they can buy a good reputation, positive reviews, good will and product interest.
How can a Chinese company reassure customers that a new technology such as EFI works on their bikes? Do the one thing they don't want to.....spend money and pay for a specialist company to help them develop the technology for their bikes and publicize the fact. Jialing did exactly that, but still managed to fail.
Let just say that you buy a motorcycle, when you do you get with it a card, that card would have a bar code on it, then so would the vehicle. You take it to a registration center, they scan both and see that they match, they then scan your personal ID card then abracadabra it is registered to you.
You then go home and go online, you enter the code on the bar code at a website, then abracadabra there is all the details on your motorcycle.
One of the displayed links is for an authorized service center, it has a map and also an option that allows you to link to your GPS and if equipped with your on-board computer, it can take you to the dealer and even notify the dealer you are coming. It creates a line in your “tracks’ which is your log of events. ”
But it is even smarter then that, since there are restrictions, it knows or calculates your directions to ensure you are not ridding in unauthorized areas. It would have an on board feature, a light that displays red or green, if you enter a road that is restricted the red light comes on, then you have a time limit to get back on track or an entry will occur on your tracks…a fine for accessing a restricted area.
Maybe they can link the high profit cellular network to the vehicles? Then maybe they can attract some diverse engineering talent?
I like the idea of color coding plates and also roads, the green plates would be the plates that are on the grid the red would not. The red would be restricted manually and the green automatically and only charged for access to a restricted area when that access occurs. It could offer a calculation for the cost of the route, and offer public transport alternative routes, online schedules for trains and buses.
Then all the vehicles would be in one giant database redundant and monitored in a giant bank servers.
If you put electronics on a motorcycle, then I would suggest adding some value to the functionality, give it some artificial intelligence. Then it generates metrics…in that is QC real-time.
Something for all the national R&D centers to work on….
Just go ahead and apply at homeland security - ever heard about privacy? I value that as a basic right very high.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
mjh you need to get out more
100% correct. The end result is that we have plenty of crappy China bikes, and it's crazy expensive to buy imported bikes. So people just buy crap that and it's so easy to replace crap parts here (or so some think). Reading what you wrote I find little hope of any change in the China bike market coming anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
:eek2: seriously guys im confused!!
Whats going on here..lol.
Is the Technology (EFI) on the bike no that good?
Sorry, got a bit carried away...Quote:
Originally Posted by Deom2i
Chinese EFI is not proven
Galaxy tried first on their 233cc engine and failed (search the forum for an Andy guy, he got burned badly).
Jialing (JH600) had enourmous problems with their EFI - that got solved finally, but reluctantly. Not sure how owners in other countries ever got theirs fixed, if at all.
No expierences on the 250 watercoled engine (Yingang/Shineray) yet - the original Honda NX250/AX1 was carbed (afaik), so nothing to carbon copy from.
Only proven EFI bikes in China are Joint Venture bikes, foreign branded, eg. YBR250.
EFI relies on software - there is not much good Chinese software out there, especially not from local companies. Maybe they should ask the their Billion neighbour nation to the west...
Andre555 is exactly right. No one is saying that the EFI on the Yinggang is bad. More it is just that the probability that the EFI is rubbish and that the wise might want to do their research. Big companies like Honda spend a great deal of money making sure that their EFI is perfect. Different humidity, atmospheric pressure, user modifications etc etc all have to be taken into account, yet companies like Ducati and BMW still have glitches and occasional flat spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by andre555
Having said all that, the CFMoto 600 must have EFI and is a four cylinder bike, and Chinese, yet I have ridden it and noticed no fueling issues, therefore it must be possible for a Chinese company to do these days, but most likely by copying or buying in outside technology.
Having said all that, the CFMoto 600 must have EFI and is a four cylinder bike, and Chinese, yet I have ridden it and noticed no fueling issues, therefore it must be possible for a Chinese company to do these days, but most likely by copying or buying in outside technology.[/QUOTE]
Yingang quote: 4 years of working on the bike,11 years of working on the engine.
250cc DOHC 4V, water cooling, 6 speeds, Electrical Fuel Injection.
Lets cross our fingers and see how this EFI on yingang performs.
I had problems with Indian pulsar 220 EFI moto, it also burned me badly.:rolleyes1:
I had to change to carburetor version. They where stopped due to customer complains within a year.
This EFI if not turned well can lead to headache and lots of time wasting on working on it, dam softwares!!
One more problem, local mechanic see EFI system as an alien device..:eekers:
This could be a problem! However, mechanics can adapt. As good looking as the Yingang looks, Deom2i, I would not consider it unless you don't mind paying to do their R&DQuote:
Originally Posted by Deom2i
efi is an alien device
bring back the carbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
I've done a lot of guinea pig R&D for the China moto industry and I think Yingang is the best company to deal with. Yes, they have issues, but they do take care of their customers and try to make things right. Look what happened to my old Yingang with the brake issue, they sent the new owner a completely updated braking system. This is a far cry for the shit service all the JH600 owners got from Jialing when they clearly documented and proved their EFI problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by culcune
I would like to see the air box and fuel injection system, as I wasn't super impressed with the old setup which had a PZ30 carb and a pod type air filter. Would also be nice if they showed improvements in the new model like the frame welding etc.
I love the carbys too, but I wish they would stop slapping tiny little carbys on bikes that require something bigger. The PZ30 on the YG250 is a perfect example.
Cheers!
ChinaV
ChinaV, I forgot about you! OK, not about you, but about your good Yingang customer service experiences. My concern would be how well they would respond to issues that came up on a worldwide basis if their EFI bike(s) went global, as Deom2i, as an example, is in Tanzania.
Yes, I've heard the positive reports about Yingang, and yes they are a breath of fresh air for a motorcycle company in China, who actually value customer service, if I was ever going to but another purely China bike, this might be the one (don't hold your breath).Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaV
But the best will is just that, they can only do what Chinese companies have access to, they aren't going to stop selling bikes just because their EFI or water cooling is poor, they'll try to fix it I'm sure but eventually they'd play the out of warranty card. Also we cannot know what is going on in the company, look at Qingqi, change of management equals death of any new bike at all.
At the end of the day someone needs to put successful 10,000-20,000 kilometers on a 2012 bike, and if the price could be kept under control (15,000-18,000RMB) they might have a winner.
Here is Engine specs for YG250NF:
ENGINE INFO
Engine Model YG170MM-A
Displacement(ml) 250
EngineType 1-Cylinder, 4-Stroke, water-cooled
MaxPower(kw/r/min) 18.5/8000
MaxTorque(N·m/r/min) 21/6000
Idling Speed（r/min） 1500±150
Consumption(g/(kW·h)) ≤345
Compression Ratio 9.0:1
Ignition CDI
Spark Plug Model D8RTC
Lubricating Capacity（L） 1.1
Petrol Type 93＃
Clutch Manual、Coil Clutch
Starter Electric
Lubrication Pressure Splashing
Transmission 5 speed
NetWeight(kg) 28.5
You are all right.
What i remember whenever i had a problem with the EFI my bike was taken to service bay and a device was connected to EFI pod (usb Like plug) , it looked like a calibration device. If i have that device wont i be able to rectify most problems with the system?
About the engine:
Its seams the carburetor engine has more power compared to the EFI version.:mwink:
Also the compressor ratio had be reduced from 11.5:1 to 9:1, i believe this is to allow less fault resulted by EFI.
what i like with EFI is the quick throttle response which is not found in carbs.:rolleyes1:
I love the carbys too, but I wish they would stop slapping tiny little carbys on bikes that require something bigger. The PZ30 on the YG250 is a perfect example.
Cheers!
ChinaV[/QUOTE]
I also had the same thought, isnt it because PZ30 cheaply available. Do you have any carb model that you would prefer to put on YG250 and is available in china?
I assure you not all the EFI system gives you good throttle response. Try new CRF-L ... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Deom2i
I have Shineray XY250GY-2, which is same engine with this jingang. I suggest you to change jets on PZ30. It comes with really small jets. Originals are 25/100 (pilot/min) as I remember. I prefer you to get like 35/125. Bec. PZ30 is valuable (maybe the best) carb. from china (copy or not, it doesn't matter). It has "some kind" of accelerator pump setup. Do not waste it, changing jets will be the most economical and optimum modify.
But If you want more, go with Mikuni TM33. I hope you will have enough room. And use a NX250 carb manifold, It just fits perfect.
If there are bigger jets for the Dekni PZ30 I am sure some others would like to know the source for those.
Did you upgrade yours carburetor, your last post stated you bought a TM33 and would post some images.
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...i-VM3*-)/page3
Yingang may be offering a bigger carb then the Dekni PZ30 on it engine, or so I have read.
now there is a new version EFI China III homologateQuote:
Originally Posted by Deom2i
Attachment 11918Attachment 11921
Attachment 11919Attachment 11920Attachment 11917
What is this model ?? Yingang what ???