JH600 stalling

[euphonius]

Can't remember if anyone brought up the Laser aftermarket exhaust here, that LJH and others have installed on their JH600. Can this be a factor for the stalling issue, or at least contribute to it? I'm still running the original exhaust and so is LJH's JH600B as far as I know!

Barry, interesting question about the Laser. I was wondering about this when Eric mentioned a gas mix sensor in the exhaust system. When I had Mister Muffler Man saw off my stock muffler, there was no sensor anywhere there. Motokai and I have Lasers, but Milton does not. Milton had epic stalling problems. I have not, though I am not immune. Motokai has had good patches and bad.

In any case, I would not want Jialing to get in a lather about the Laser. The problem exists regardless of which muffler is used.

Perhaps we can add this information to the data we all supply to Motokai.

cheers!

[Barry]

Furthermore, I don't think any of you had stalling problems directly after installing the Laser.

How are the stalling issues if you compare the earlier JH600's vs the newer version? Euphonius' and mine are earlier version than Motokai's, Milton's and LJH's if I'm correct!

[ZMC888]

I know people are going on the 'bike is too lean tangent' which is highly logical and plausible. But shouldn't EFI systems be able to adjust for it? Also shouldn't a Bosch EFI system work as well if not better than the industry standard, and shouldn't it be easy to achieve with a 600 single, being a fairly simple and well known design?

This is only a theory, but maybe this could be an electronics issue and the spark is too weak? We all know Chinese shops don't adequately trickle charge new batteries overnight, we know that a company like Jialing might have mediocre wiring and that the ignition coil and leads might also be causing the problem. Just a theory to eliminate.

[998S]

Eric mentioned a gas mix sensor in the exhaust system

If I remember well, the CO sensor is mounted on the right side, halfway the tank, in a sleeve on the exhaust-header.
That is why it was not removed when they changed your silencer.
It still should work.

I know people are going on the 'bike is too lean tangent' which is highly logical and plausible. But shouldn't EFI systems be able to adjust for it? Also shouldn't a Bosch EFI system work as well if not better than the industry standard, and shouldn't it be easy to achieve with a 600 single, being a fairly simple and well known design?

You are right that the sensor measures the CO in the exhaust gasses, then adjusts. This is however a slow process with a long delay, not taking place all the time (I will not bother you with open and closed loop modes though), and within limits.
Besides, that only 'lifts' or 'lowers' the total fuel map.
The problem remains that the map itself is set very lean to pass the emmission approvals.

This is only a theory, but maybe this could be an electronics issue and the spark is too weak?

I am quite sure you have point here.
I am sure most components are of limited quality, such as the decompression valve system, surely the electronics, and most likely other components.
A weak spark should specifically result into poor starting, and a rough idle.
You might have that problem, as I read that most of you run the bikes at rather high idle.
It is IMO not a reason for the 'cut-out' though.


Eric

[euphonius]

I know people are going on the 'bike is too lean tangent' which is highly logical and plausible. But shouldn't EFI systems be able to adjust for it? Also shouldn't a Bosch EFI system work as well if not better than the industry standard, and shouldn't it be easy to achieve with a 600 single, being a fairly simple and well known design?

This is only a theory, but maybe this could be an electronics issue and the spark is too weak? We all know Chinese shops don't adequately trickle charge new batteries overnight, we know that a company like Jialing might have mediocre wiring and that the ignition coil and leads might also be causing the problem. Just a theory to eliminate.

Dear Z,

Your reasoning is sound. There could also be significant quality control variance between individual bikes, given that they are essentially hand made in monthly batches only after customer orders have arrived. This would explain the wide variation in stalling between individual JH600s.

I do have stalls, though not nearly as bad as others (knock wood), as I approach 10k km on the bike, my engine and EFI are completely original save for an NGK plug and the aftermarket Laser can.

You'll recall that when you and I rode through Qufu in summer 2010, under incessant torrential rains, my JH600 was fearless, even in deep floodwaters that sometimes reached my knees. Did Jialing buy a better grade of copper wire when they assembled my bike, and Barry's?

I do like the way this is putting Jialing on the spot. Making motorcycles is an adult activity, and requires a certain minimal level of corporate responsibility.

cheers!

[ZMC888]

Euph, yes your bike was indeed faultless during torrential rain.

Could be a bad batch of leads, coils, EFI, sensor reading wrong, could be EFI itself, a question for a real engineer. Needs a BMW or Bosch engineer from Germany or Austria, I'm sure they'd find the problem in five minutes with the correct apparatus.

If it was my bike I'd try:

1. Make sure I had a Japanese manufactured NGK spark plug of the correct rating and gap measurement.
2. Buy a new internationally known brand battery and long charged it properly before I used it.
3. Change the lead to an NGK.
4. Try running Shell 97 octane.
5. Try changing the fuel filter if possible.
6. Try chevron techron fuel system cleaner or BG 44K
7. Try rewiring electrical system better
8. Try an aftermarket air filter and muffler to see if increased air flow actually helps.

after that I'm stumped, and would clearly be a Jialing company issue.

[Barry]

Same here, I was totally drenched twice but the bike just kept going! Engine/EFI wise my bike is still original as far as I know apart from the spark plug. About to hit 26k km.

[euphonius]

....About to hit 26k km.

Did you say 26k clicks???? OMG, I'm in awe! How much of that was on the clock from the previous owner?

[fons]

hey fella,
you better not ride a made-in-china bike on the chinese road. so you can avoid all these problems.

Euph, yes your bike was indeed faultless during torrential rain.

Could be a bad batch of leads, coils, EFI, sensor reading wrong, could be EFI itself, a question for a real engineer. Needs a BMW or Bosch engineer from Germany or Austria, I'm sure they'd find the problem in five minutes with the correct apparatus.

If it was my bike I'd try:

1. Make sure I had a Japanese manufactured NGK spark plug of the correct rating and gap measurement.
2. Buy a new internationally known brand battery and long charged it properly before I used it.
3. Change the lead to an NGK.
4. Try running Shell 97 octane.
5. Try changing the fuel filter if possible.
6. Try chevron techron fuel system cleaner or BG 44K
7. Try rewiring electrical system better
8. Try an aftermarket air filter and muffler to see if increased air flow actually helps.

after that I'm stumped, and would clearly be a Jialing company issue.