JH600 stalling

[milton]

Last night I had a conversation with LZD, the Shanghai "rep" for our JH600. The following is what had transpired:

1. Jialing is anxious to fix the stalling problems, which are popping up all over the country, but at its wit's end about the issue. Those problems seem to come from all directions and always recur in a while even after swapping out the suspected parts. Jialing basically doesn't know what to do next. However, a package of ECU goodies, including all the sensors and related parts, will be sent to LZD for diagnostic purposes. The idea is to swap out parts one by one until the stalling is gone, on Motokai's bike I believe. I am surprised that no ECU engineer is involved at all for this clearly ECU related problem.

2 The ECU "management console" for our bikes prior to 2011 is version 2.0, which is read only and does not allow write to any of the parameters. The latest is version 3.0, which does allow both read and write. Neither version is available in Shanghai. LZD thinks he may be able to pry a recent version out of CQ so Eric can take a look.

3. The Bosch engineer who was sent to CQ to work with Jialing on version 2.0 originally is still in Shanghai. He is a long-time acquaintance of LZD's. So through LZD we may have access to some one who knows a thing or two about our ECU. Strangely enough he claims that he is not aware any of the stalling problems at all.

LZD wants to drive me to Eric's tomorrow to pick up my "professionally cleaned" bike so he can get to know Eric. By the rate of progress I probably should just leave it with Eric for a few more days. By the time I pick it up, my pristine bike may even be F1 worthy. Eric, you have my unconditional permission to do anything you want to the bike.

Cheers!

[998S]

Milton,

If you can try to come to me with LZD a bit early tomorrow, then I try to set up the Buell Mapping on my laptop.
Lets blast him away, so he will report back that we know what we are doing....

Eric

[998S]

For those of you not so familiar with the diagnostic software; these are just some of the pages of the software to fully tune a Buell.
If you connect the laptop to the motorcycle, everything becomes dynamic in real time, with up to date readings of all major data such as air temp and pressure, temp of the engine, rpm's, injection overrides and of course the full mapping for spark and fuel for each cylinder.
This is all the imput the ECU gets to determine the correct fuel amount for each condition (and where it goes wrong in your Jialing's).

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[milton]

For those of you not so familiar with the diagnostic software; these are just some of the pages of the software to fully tune a Buell.
If you connect the laptop to the motorcycle, everything becomes dynamic in real time

Wow, this is what we call user friendliness. By the way, how is the laptop connected to the ECU? Through a USB cable?

[Lao Jia Hou]

I had a thought ... you know, in fairness, Jialing might only have a coal-fired abacus as its computing resource.

Don't scare LZD too, too much with this 21st Century stuff.

[998S]

Wow, this is what we call user friendliness. By the way, how is the laptop connected to the ECU? Through a USB cable?

Yeah, that the tricky part.
Every brand has its own connector, mostly with USB cable or Bluetooth on the laptop side.
Not an easy plug and play unfortunately, otherwise your Jialing problem was already definitively solved by now.

[Lao Jia Hou]

Well, I am officially out of the JH600 club.

I went by the Beijing Service Center, and after being subjected to more of the absurd "party line" from JL, I gave up. I'm tired of being played as a patsy.

Both of my legal & plated JH600s are for sale, sitting at the Service Center. Caveat emptor. I actually might scrap one for its "A" plate.

By the way, for what it is worth, the most recent "fix" was to disconnect the camshaft position sensor. What a pile of crap.

Anyways, good luck guys.

[998S]

It is a pity that an other rider falls victim to the behavior of a Chinese manufacturer, who does not give a sh*t about the customers.
Still be carefull with buying other bikes, Jialing is not the only one with problems (http://www.girardgibbs.com/ducati.asp)

I spoke with Milton just now, who rode his bike this afternoon after the temporary fix I provided.
He told me the stalling is not over, but less as before.
He compared it to the time when he just got the bike delivered.

This makes very good sense, as the "learning mode" within the ECU will fight against my temporary fix.
Due to the over-ride settings, the ECU will think that the mixture is too rich, and will try to reduce it.
This only confirms that we need to get INTO the fuel and spark maps to try to change the base settings.

He will make an other ride tomorrow, and I asked him to ride a bit higher in RPM's, and shift down a bit later.
This might lift the map again, and reduce the stalls.

This might also have happened to Motokai's bike last week ride to Jiangsu.
Longer rides at constant throttle let the ECU adjust the settings.
If that meant the setting was slightly higher before you entered 'open loop' (let say entering stop-and-go trafic with a then fixed ECU), you might have by-passed the stalling.


So if you ride with him tomorrow, don't be surprised if you see an other kind of Milton passing you at high speed ha-ha ....

[milton]

I got the bike back from Eric's house on Saturday and ventured out on Sunday with a bunch of JH600 riders to Taihu. The Taihu trip was about 280km.
The stalling is definitely not totally out, but it behaves very similarly to its original condition when I first received the bike new from the factory (as far as I can recall). It surges/races a bit when I let go of the accelerator, which is understanble as the fuel mixture is artificially lifted high over all the rpms. It ran a bit rough also. The idling was around 1650 rpm. The trip was even enjoyable.

This morning, I started the bike in the basement car park, it didn't even have that predicatable 10-15 seconds stall when the engine is first fired up. The outdoor temperature was 11 celsius and the idling was around 1750, higher than yesterday. Sometimes in early part of my commuting the idling stays over 2200 rpm and wouldn't come down. I did not get a single stall though.

So the diddling definitely improved the situation and confirmed Eric's hypothesis. we should all continue to work on LZD to try to get a copy of v3.0 from CQ so we can find tune it.

Cheers,
Milton

[998S]

That's good news Milton, happy to hear!

Your 2.200 rpm idle is caused by me, as I tried to set the idle-set bolt just contacting the throttle wheel. Probably a tat too much.
As you know, we only found the confirmation that the bike has a idle stepper motor, controlling the idle by vacuum.

If I turn back the idle-set screw 1/8 of a turn, the high idle will be gone completely.
2 min work, just pass by if convenient if it bothers you, otherwise next time.

Eric

PS. Hope you all received my PM on the version 2.0 and 3.0 issues.