JH600 stalling

[998S]

Wow, this is what we call user friendliness. By the way, how is the laptop connected to the ECU? Through a USB cable?

Yeah, that the tricky part.
Every brand has its own connector, mostly with USB cable or Bluetooth on the laptop side.
Not an easy plug and play unfortunately, otherwise your Jialing problem was already definitively solved by now.

[Lao Jia Hou]

Well, I am officially out of the JH600 club.

I went by the Beijing Service Center, and after being subjected to more of the absurd "party line" from JL, I gave up. I'm tired of being played as a patsy.

Both of my legal & plated JH600s are for sale, sitting at the Service Center. Caveat emptor. I actually might scrap one for its "A" plate.

By the way, for what it is worth, the most recent "fix" was to disconnect the camshaft position sensor. What a pile of crap.

Anyways, good luck guys.

[998S]

It is a pity that an other rider falls victim to the behavior of a Chinese manufacturer, who does not give a sh*t about the customers.
Still be carefull with buying other bikes, Jialing is not the only one with problems (http://www.girardgibbs.com/ducati.asp)

I spoke with Milton just now, who rode his bike this afternoon after the temporary fix I provided.
He told me the stalling is not over, but less as before.
He compared it to the time when he just got the bike delivered.

This makes very good sense, as the "learning mode" within the ECU will fight against my temporary fix.
Due to the over-ride settings, the ECU will think that the mixture is too rich, and will try to reduce it.
This only confirms that we need to get INTO the fuel and spark maps to try to change the base settings.

He will make an other ride tomorrow, and I asked him to ride a bit higher in RPM's, and shift down a bit later.
This might lift the map again, and reduce the stalls.

This might also have happened to Motokai's bike last week ride to Jiangsu.
Longer rides at constant throttle let the ECU adjust the settings.
If that meant the setting was slightly higher before you entered 'open loop' (let say entering stop-and-go trafic with a then fixed ECU), you might have by-passed the stalling.


So if you ride with him tomorrow, don't be surprised if you see an other kind of Milton passing you at high speed ha-ha ....

[milton]

I got the bike back from Eric's house on Saturday and ventured out on Sunday with a bunch of JH600 riders to Taihu. The Taihu trip was about 280km.
The stalling is definitely not totally out, but it behaves very similarly to its original condition when I first received the bike new from the factory (as far as I can recall). It surges/races a bit when I let go of the accelerator, which is understanble as the fuel mixture is artificially lifted high over all the rpms. It ran a bit rough also. The idling was around 1650 rpm. The trip was even enjoyable.

This morning, I started the bike in the basement car park, it didn't even have that predicatable 10-15 seconds stall when the engine is first fired up. The outdoor temperature was 11 celsius and the idling was around 1750, higher than yesterday. Sometimes in early part of my commuting the idling stays over 2200 rpm and wouldn't come down. I did not get a single stall though.

So the diddling definitely improved the situation and confirmed Eric's hypothesis. we should all continue to work on LZD to try to get a copy of v3.0 from CQ so we can find tune it.

Cheers,
Milton

[998S]

That's good news Milton, happy to hear!

Your 2.200 rpm idle is caused by me, as I tried to set the idle-set bolt just contacting the throttle wheel. Probably a tat too much.
As you know, we only found the confirmation that the bike has a idle stepper motor, controlling the idle by vacuum.

If I turn back the idle-set screw 1/8 of a turn, the high idle will be gone completely.
2 min work, just pass by if convenient if it bothers you, otherwise next time.

Eric

PS. Hope you all received my PM on the version 2.0 and 3.0 issues.

[fons]

so it's the problem related to ECU or other parts? We have 600A. no these kinda experience at all.

[milton]

On my way home from work today I had another stalling free trip. The idling speed was a bit higher around 1850rpm. Not the smoothest ride but no stalling. The idling speed seems to vary from ride to ride. Temperature definitely is one of the parameters that determine its level.
Forgot to mention that with the current “fix” the gas mileage is about 12% lower than previously. This should not come as a surprise, as the floor of fuel mixture is lifted higher to fool an ECU bug..

[Lao Jia Hou]

so it's the problem related to ECU or other parts? We have 600A. no these kinda experience at all.

Hi fons

Congratulations on your good fortune. I've spoken with two owners of the newest JH600A (presumably with the version 3.0 ECU), and those owners indicate that they have experienced at least some stalling. As Eric (998S) has noted, the ECU is probably not the only contributing factor. It seems that you were lucky enough to get a "planets are perfectly aligned" bike (which is like a lottery), and fortunately your experiences will be more pleasant. Unfortunately, I know many more lottery losers than lottery winners.

I think what most of us have found MOST frustrating is Jialing's complete unwillingness to address this issue. We are all adults, and aware that ANY bike can have problems. Where the rubber hits the road, however, is how the manufacturer deals with its customers. At this stage, after a VERY long discussion/interaction with JL (and its agents), we have ended up with two official responses:

1) disconnect sensors (ridiculous)
2) change engine oil brand (completely ridiculous)

OK, we are adults ... but Jialing treats us like 3 year old children.

I, as an owner of both the two wheeled and three wheeled version, would eagerly replace the faulty parts. Shit, I even offered to replace the entire drive train with the new JH600A 3.0 drivetrain if ... and I emphasize IF ... Jialing unconditionally guaranteed that this would eliminate the stalling problem. If the stalling persisted, to any degree, I'd insist that Jialing buy the bike back, including the cost of all new parts. Jialing refused my offer ... and that pretty much tells me what Jialing knows and doesn't know.

By the way, Jialing has lied to me, time and again, about these problems. First, they denied that it was even happening (we knew of several other examples). Next, they blamed me (uh, I've been riding for 40 years & have owned dozens of bikes). This was followed by "oh, some bikes are just like that, don't worry" (no, it is a serious safety concern). Followed by a myriad of other nonsensical "ideas", "solutions", etc.

This stalling issue has also overshadowed other issues that would, without any question, result in an immediate recall if these bikes were sold in a marketplace with consumer protection. For example, the rubber chain guide has a tendency to wear prematurely and can cause catastrophic failure, potentially resulting in the bike's rear wheel seizing up. There are also examples of premature stator failure, decompression valve failure, and so on, and so on. Jialing's responses have been pathetic.

Again, however, all of these issues could be somewhat expected on a new model ... but Jialing's complete lack of customer support has forced me to return to tried & true manufacturers, such as Yamaha.

Bottom line for me is ... whenever a bike experience is more painful than pleasurable, I sell the bike.

Jialing will not get my business back. Too bad, because I kinda liked the bikes when they were running properly.