CFMoto & KTM

[bigdamo]

I read on that Moto8 page one of the posters said there was a Chinese made KTM 390 Duke on the floor of the dealer. My Mandarin is poor very poor and I don't believe everything that is quoted on the web. Plus i doubt there would be so much demand in China for both a 350exc and a 350 freeride.Be interesting riding that freeride down the tar with trials tyres.Plus the Chinese might get abit upset when they have done a couple of road trips and the tyres are gone(worn down).

[MJH]

what is Honda offering?
http://www.honda.com.cn/corporate/mo...2013chongqing/

[braillce]

Both your bikes are fine, IMHO, just different. I'm quite curious about that Z250.

I guess we'll all to have to wait and see whether a bike actually shows up in April, 2014, for 50ish (probably be 59,999.99).[...]

Yea I don't care there's better coming, there always will be. I'll get the bike I want now.

I hope for others the 390 doesn't come much over 50K, I doubt it will, in India it's cheaper than the Ninja 300, which sucks for Kawasaki..

[MJH]

The tariff rates into China out of India and Thailand are the same.
However what is coming out of India cost less, the manufacturing costs in India are lower then in Thailand.

Thailand and India have much higher import tariffs then China about 2x as much.

What is made in India historically did not sell well in China...until now.

If you see a model made in both India and Thailand and it is retailing for not much more then what it retails for in Thailand, then it likely was imported from India. Because of the high import prices in Thailand as in Brazil the domestic production raises the margins on profit, the Thai made sold in Thailand have high markups. They can import the lower cost units from India and sell them for close to what they sell for in Thailand and still make a profit on them.

[bikerdoc]

KTM announce China partnership press release at 12th CIMC Expo in Chongqing and launch of new logo....

Oh.... and who is the new partner? CFMOTO!

CFMOTO & KTM

or

KTM & CFMOTO

[bigdamo]

KTM announce China partnership press release at 12th CIMC Expo in Chongqing and launch of new logo....

Oh.... and who is the new partner? CFMOTO!

CFMOTO & KTM


or

KTM & CFMOTO

Did they announce they are letting CFmoto manufacturer KTM bikes in China?

Hey they might.But I want to get a Triumph street triple but I sure won't be buying one made in India(because that's what I hear triumph are doing).I'd say the rest of the world will have there reservations about buying a English steed made in India. Same goes for KTM. People pay abit more for a KTM made in Austria.Lets see how there(sic) Chinese made KTMs sell in the rest of the world.Highlander lost out big time when they got there 950 V twins adventure bike made in Hunan.That wasn't a bad bike before they moved manufacturing to China.

Because one of the big reasons motorcycle riders buy motorcycles is bragging rites and pulling into the pits or carpark with other motorcyclists is showing your bike and pulling in with your Chinese made motorcycle at present well your just going to get bagged big time.There is a business selling Chinese dirt bikes here in my small town(small town but big time into motorcycles) and every time I drive by they have that copy of Honda CRF450 sitting out the front they can't move them and there been there for 2 plus years and you can get them at less them half the price of euro or Japanese motorcycles.

[bikerdoc]

Yeah right KTM is going to have some form of collaboration with a Chinese motorcycle manufacturer.

So you seriously believe a major European motorcycle manufacturer ie KTM are going to let some Chinese motorcycle manufacturer add bits to their KTM a Chinese motorcycle manufacturer that still can't get their own bikes right.Which Chinese motorcycle manufacturer can get their bikes right.As I say YEAH RIGHT.

I always love the "I spoke to a friend/guy someone high up etc etc" rumors there are so many on this site.Chinese whispers eh.

Your right Husqvarna ditched Marzocchi in favor of KYB after Marzocchi switched manufacturing to China.Marzocchi has lost serious cred with all the issues after switching manufacturing to China.The head of KTM bought Husqvarna off BMW and is trying to fix the problems.Bikedoc you don't think KTM have an inkling of how bad Chinese motorcyle companies are ?

Oh I forgot bikedoc is GOD. Sure will eat my hat if I'm wrong. Greed KTM sales has risen hugely over the last decade by no coincidence alot of hard work was put in I'd say they ain't going to let some two bit Chinese manufacturer ruin all their hard work seriously their brand doesn't fit in with China .How many Chinese do you think would buy a 990 ADV bike either KTM or CFmoto or who ever.Chinese want BIG name brands show me the BLING.KTM would sell far more ADV bikes in Australia than China by along shot.

Hey Little princeling I was going to follow your advice and keep my mouth shut but seeing as you can't follow your own advice and keep your mouth shut here you go

Bikedoc for some reason you think is a GOD and everything he says is gospel.Well in my many years in China doing business and living there if I got a dollar if I believed some Chinese business associate telling me their business is doing this or aligned with some major western business well I'd have a over a thousand bucks by now but little princleing you believe every thing you hear that's your problem naive as you are.

Ok Bikeboc quoted this from his first post

"After some calls back and forth by all and each of us to other third parties, finally we were told that there is some form of collaboration between KTM and CFMoto (but not what form the collaboration takes) only seemingly that the KTM990ADV (although it may have been the KTM690 - but who knows in the TIC translation BS) forms the basis of the CFMoto adventurer design, but with the same 650 inline twin cylinder engine as shared with the NK & TR."

I called BS on this.

Bikedoc and yourself called on me to eat my hat so to speak.Fine happy to do this if proven wrong but I spoke to my friend in KTM Australia and after he stopped laughing he said KTM would never let their brand get trashed by ANY manufacturer let alone a Chinese motorcycle manufacturer.

So little princleling or Bikedoc what time frame are we talking about before we see a KTM motorcycle joint venture with CF moto released onto the Chinese Market.

Because now I will report back on this thread every three months eagerly awaiting a CF moto/KTM adventure bike and not CFmoto just copying KTM as many Chinese manufactures copy and bastardized western brands.

BUT seriously why would KTM do that when obviously they are selling their brand already in China. Why would they let CF moto or anyone else bastardized their brand.

What are you and Bikedoc going to eat when you are proven wrong when this mythological KTM/CF moto combined effort doesn't appear ??

KTM announce China partnership press release at 12th CIMC Expo in Chongqing and launch of new logo... with plenty of discussion going on surrounding the domestically made Duke 390.

Guess I'm still an arsehat then bigdamo?

[bigdamo]

KTM announce China partnership press release at 12th CIMC Expo in Chongqing and launch of new logo... with plenty of discussion going on surrounding the domestically made Duke 390.

Guess I'm still an arsehat then bigdamo?

No need for that Bikedoc.Gee I can't understand why people don't stick around on this website.

Really I can't fathom Ktm's mind set of manufacturing in China but maybe that is just me.Business can manufacturer at a lower price point in other countries less than china which they are.

For instance motorcycling in China is taking the leap from motorcycles as transport to motorcycles as a sport.But really what they have done is make it very very hard to do motorcycling in China as a sport/hobbie for the mainstream. Yeah sure there are the tuhao and some rich expats(bikedoc etc etc) but manufacturing a Duke 390 or 200 for the Chinese market hey some Chinese sure have the money but I think they aren't going to pony up the money for a Chinese manufactured motorcycle just as in the west (sic) they want the big name brands not made in China affiliates.What market does that leave them foreign teachers in China(not that there is anything wrong with that I did it for a while) expats really there aren't many foreign expats that want to ride a motorcycle in China Bikedoc your a rare minority as most are there for the money and career progression and will leave for greener pastures with body intact or so they are hoping (most who I have contact with are amazed that I have a Chinese license saying why on Earth would you want to drive in Cina I dare not tell them I have a Motorcycle license as well) But really.The average middle class want a car not a motorcycle.If your middle class and riding a motorcycle well let's just say you haven't made it yet.



Now back to the Phillip Island .go Redding.

OH SHIT Off topic but Redding just crashed has been stretched off. OH Shit

[bikerdoc]

No need for that Bikedoc.Gee I can't understand why people don't stick around on this website.

Well might be that some don't like or appreciate being called out on a post, or have someone else insinuate that the poster is a liar!

Really I can't fathom Ktm's mind set of manufacturing in China but maybe that is just me.Business can manufacturer at a lower price point in other countries less than china which they are.

For instance motorcycling in China is taking the leap from motorcycles as transport to motorcycles as a sport.But really what they have done is make it very very hard to do motorcycling in China as a sport/hobbie for the mainstream. Yeah sure there are the tuhao and some rich expats(bikedoc etc etc) but manufacturing a Duke 390 or 200 for the Chinese market hey some Chinese sure have the money but I think they aren't going to pony up the money for a Chinese manufactured motorcycle just as in the west (sic) they want the big name brands not made in China affiliates.what market does that leave them foreign teachers in China(not that there is anything wrong with that I did it for a while)But really.The average middle class want a car not a motorcycle.If your middle class and riding a motorcycle well let's just say you haven't made it yet.

Now back to the Phillip Island .go Redding.

OH SHIT Off topic but Redding just crashed has been stretched off. OH Shit

I can, and so can some other posters to this thread. KTM like many others see the potential in the domestic PRC market. Sure there are the purists who won't touch anything seemingly 'contaminated' by another supplier or manufacturer e.g. Kymco or Loncin to BMW. Ironically though many manufacturers source parts from external suppliers, even HD do it. Its as you say sometimes about status as much as about riding for some riders , and that is shared very much inside PRC. Some would rather have an imported brand with it's likely better QA/QC etc. There are others who want that but can;t or won't allow themselves to afford it even if they might be able to. Then there's I guess the rest. This is where Qjiang with Benelli have done well selling the domestically made BJ600/QJ600. Many people will buy based on the brand recognition and everything they associate with it. This is part of the mindset that CFMoto have to work against with their models.

What you write about motorcycling and the role of the humble motorcycle and subsequent shift from an utilitarian, egalitarian and pragmatic form/mode of transport essential to all forms of daily life in PRC is not too dissimilar to the path of the bicycle in modern times here. Without getting too deep into the cause and affect, people have increasing disposable time, income, expectations, and the means by which items that were until very recently seen as utilitarian tools, reinvented as a means to access recreation. Couple that with the increasing affluence of the increasing middle class and beyond and one can see the potential marketability and profits that might be realised by selling into the worlds most populace country even if not all the population have a disposable income to spend on ones products. KTM and other manufacturers see this potential market and after a SWOT analysis realise that high import tariffs imposed by the PRC government are barriers to a greater majority of the market share, so if they can realise affordability then they (the manufacturer) can have a bigger slice of the pie. After all the profits that KTM likely make from a sale of one of the legally imported bikes in PRC is probably not too much different from any other place. The high entry price the consumer pays, is made up of a large component of taxes and duties that the government of the day make, aside from the dealer.

Localising makes a lot of sense, but as you point out, does include inherent risks. I'd assume after the due diligence KTM factor the risk is worth it.

So go back to your close friend with KTM in Aussie 'cause I'd luv to be a fly on that wall.

And, lastly, pity about Scott Redding... in Moto2.

[bigdamo]

Well might be that some don't like or appreciate being called out on a post, or have someone else insinuate that the poster is a liar!







So go back to your close friend with KTM in Aussie 'cause I'd luv to be a fly on that wall.

And, lastly, pity about Scott Redding... in Moto2.

Emm Don't believe I called you a LAIR.Just voicing my opinion.As I said rumors get vulnerable people in trouble and there are far to many rumors if not in China but the world.Get back to me when it it is hard proof not hearsay off your friend in CFmoto which for some reason you have a idiomatic link(seeing as you love using big words and phrases) with.Because I beleive you said you were importing your Yamaha XT1200 after your trip through oz and NZ into China how did that go?

"Bigdamo. I have a life, a family, a career, a profession, a thesis to complete (almost done), and a real passion for motorcycles. I don't need make up shiet, just for, what, the _______ hell of it. I have way better things to do with my time. "

Well If your doing a thesis hope it ain't in business or marketing makes no mind 90% of people doing a thesis of one sort or another have no idea what is going on the ground level anyway always seem to be doing some thesis or another just can't retaliate to real life.

Wish you and your family or the best.You do relaise your making this another pissing match.Probably another thesis for you .