Recomendation for Dual-sport Bike for Trip from China to Europe

**foxy88** · 05-16-2014, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by davidzweig

The route is across Western China and into Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan then Kazakhstan. At high altitude (say 2000m) the bike looses something like half it's power.. you have to use high revs and full throttle to keep moving.. this is true for FI and non FI, but the FI at least keeps the fuel/air ratio correct, so the engine isn't running, rich, I think. 125cc at altitude two-up on steep inclines will probably be a bit slow going.

Ah right, I'm guessing you'll be heading through Qinghai for a while then? The average elevation there is 3,000m- what happens when you get up over say 4,000m? Am thinking of doing a similar trip midyear..

If you're passing through Kunming at any stage let me know, I have a moderate grasp of the lingo and know the city fairly well..

**prince666** · 05-16-2014, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by zhu

Getting a new bike registered is not a small job . That is it requires proof of residence and a licence and the right visa and the mood of the Chinese clerk must be right and the moon and stars must be aligned just so. Even then it can take weeks. Buying a used bike which is already registered has many advantages especially in your case, so if you pay over the odds at least you will be on the road.

The above quote only applies to foreign people and not a Chinese person and you are so correct in saying "The mood of the Chinese clerk must be right and the moon and stars must be aligned just so." Had my CF MOTO TR put in my name today was told by the police clerk in the last 10 years this was the only second one this office has done a bike registration plate in a foreign name , but after some hard work from me and my agent it was all done in my name , but in the end at one point there was 8 lady offices around 1 PC trying to sort it out but i can say there didn't want to do it TIC

photo 1.jpg

**bikerdoc** · 05-17-2014, 03:48 AM

There are multiple factors as has already pointed out in this thread. Buying a bike actually is probably likely to be the easiest part. Buying a bike that you can make 100% legal in EVERY/ALL aspects is likely to be your biggest hindrance.

Getting said bike plated in ones name (foreign name, or an approved Ch!nese name for a foreigner that links the two names foreigners name to the chosen Ch!nese name for that foreigner together) presents a number of hurdles even for the likes of us that have the correct documentation, and authorisations needed. IMO OP (David) deciding on the bike... buy new, unless you are buying used/second hand from someone you know well enough so you could reasonably be assured of the pedigree (service history) of said bike. The plating is a significant issue if you;

a). don't want to have hassles with the authorities in the event of an inspection of relevant documents and bikes legality;
b) significant hindrances and hurdles in the event of an accident, especially one where there's a question of fault and responsibility;
c). ability to sell bike at any point and be able to transfer registered ownership (plate) and recover a significant portion of the initial purchase price;
d). secure insurance in YOUR name, and lastly;
e). get yourselves and the bike through the various border crossings, legally and intact.

The sellers will make all kinds of promises, and sure plating a bike if it's legal can be achieved usually without difficulty for most dealers and locals, but it is not always so. You decide on a bike, the dealer says something like 'no problem with plate' they go off to the local Traffic Management Bureau with said bike and documents, and even if that dealer/seller has every intention of helping you get the plate in YOUR name, there are likely (HIGHLY likely) to be issues doing so for someone without a fixed abode, a visa of at least several months duration, and a whole host of other requirements. In the end the dealer will just plate the bike in someone else's name or his/her own just to be done with it. The dealer/seller hands you the bike, keys and a couple of free helmets (that wouldn't protect your head much less anything organic in a significant off), maybe a rain poncho, the bikes 'green' and 'blue' book. Unless you can read Ch!nese, it's likely you'd be none the wiser that the bike isn't in your name. Even if you do realise this, and all and sundry reassure you that this is "no problem", it may just be. Whether that problem surfaces at a checkpoint, as the result of an accident, or at a border crossing. Even IF a seller/dealer makes good to write a you a letter of authority assigning all rights, responsibility and liability of the bike over to you, YOU can find out that might mean fark all when 'push comes to shove'.

Forearmed is forewarned.

**davidzweig** · 05-17-2014, 04:59 AM

@foxy88 I found a formula online that says a non-turbo engine looses about 12% of it's power for every 1000m above sea level.. so at 3000m that's something like a 36% loss of power (I had the feeling the loss was a bit more than that..). So a 125cc has the power of a 80cc, and if the jets are not changed on the carburetor, fuel efficiency drops. Yes, we'll past by Kunming, if we do manage to get going at all.. :-)

@prince666 Great photo! How are things looking for your trip?

@bikerdoc We want to be as legal as we can. Hopefully that is legal enough to cross the country via it's backwaters and get across the border. We've already given up on the idea of the 'blue book' being in our name, but I don't see that as a problem? We would be in the same situation as prince666, with the bike registered in someone else's name and a letter. After China, I don't think there will be many difficulties. Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan I imagine are pretty lax (plus, according to my friend from Turkmenistan, bribes don't so much as fix problems, but rather are responsible for about half the GDP. I've also had the pleasure of driving around Ukraine), but Kazakhstan and Russia probably have a more through customs procedures. With translations of the Chinese docs into Russian, should be alright. Could also look into registering the bike locally in Kyrgyzstan, if this is possible. I speak Russian so things would be much easier over there.

I'm more worried about the danger of road accidents than the prospect of spending a couple of weeks in prison and loosing the bike. Motorbikes are dangerous, no matter how cautious a driver you are. A momentary lapse in concentration or the simultaneous occurrence of several road hazards (curve + gravel on the road + gust of wind + oncoming traffic crossing into your lane etc.).. the human body isn't designed for motorcycle-speed impacts..

One question. Should the letter be written: I give permission to David to drive my bike around anywhere he likes, including across borders etc. --or rather-- I transfer ownership of the motorcycle registered in my name to David ? If a bike is sold in China, does the name in the blue book always change?

**prince666** · 05-17-2014, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by davidzweig

@foxy88 I found a formula online that says a non-turbo engine looses about 12% of it's power for every 1000m above sea level.. so at 3000m that's something like a 36% loss of power (I had the feeling the loss was a bit more than that..). So a 125cc has the power of a 80cc, and if the jets are not changed on the carburetor, fuel efficiency drops. Yes, we'll past by Kunming, if we do manage to get going at all.. :-)

@prince666 Great photo! How are things looking for your trip?

@bikerdoc We want to be as legal as we can. Hopefully that is legal enough to cross the country via it's backwaters and get across the border. We've already given up on the idea of the 'blue book' being in our name, but I don't see that as a problem? We would be in the same situation as prince666, with the bike registered in someone else's name and a letter. After China, I don't think there will be many difficulties. Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan I imagine are pretty lax (plus, according to my friend from Turkmenistan, bribes don't so much as fix problems, but rather are responsible for about half the GDP. I've also had the pleasure of driving around Ukraine), but Kazakhstan and Russia probably have a more through customs procedures. With translations of the Chinese docs into Russian, should be alright. Could also look into registering the bike locally in Kyrgyzstan, if this is possible. I speak Russian so things would be much easier over there.

I'm more worried about the danger of road accidents than the prospect of spending a couple of weeks in prison and loosing the bike. Motorbikes are dangerous, no matter how cautious a driver you are. A momentary lapse in concentration or the simultaneous occurrence of several road hazards (curve + gravel on the road + gust of wind + oncoming traffic crossing into your lane etc.).. the human body isn't designed for motorcycle-speed impacts..

One question. Should the letter be written: I give permission to David to drive my bike around anywhere he likes, including across borders etc. --or rather-- I transfer ownership of the motorcycle registered in my name to David ? If a bike is sold in China, does the name in the blue book always change?

Hi Dave

This is what i had done, but at the bottom you need to put a copy of the owner chinese I.D.
card and you need to have it in English and Chinese . As to the trip all going nicely should be on my way by next weekend, but the shit has hit the fan in Thailand with people doing a VOR then doing border runs to stay longer then 30 days in Thailand , so i need to pop into Nanning first to pick up a Thail Visa , then i be good to go

Authorised permission to take a Yamaha YBRG 125cc motorbike out of china

I ZHANG XXXXXX (ID:2301021XXXXXXXXX),the registered owner of a Yamaha motorbike.
Chinese plate No. 琼D 0XXXXX
Vin number LBPPCJLSXCXXXXXXXX
Engine number 123XXXXXX

I allow my husband Stephen GeXXX PXXX, UK passport number 508XXXXXX to leave china with the above motorbike.

Thank you for your help in this matter.

ZHANG xxxxxx

Contact mob number 1506381XXXXX

**humanbeing** · 05-17-2014, 11:00 AM

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...e-Bill-of-Sale

**davidzweig** · 05-17-2014, 01:20 PM

Figured out quite some stuffs today. Went back to the Yamaha dealer, the bike was 5980, but the registration was another 900 (so 6880) on top, and I would have needed to find someone to register the bike's name in. It's a really nice bike, and I'd use it at home, but that's assuming it makes it back and I can register it there.

I took at look at some more used bikes at some shops, they were mostly either seriously in need of work (vibrating engines, leaking forks, no brakes etc.) or pricey. Went back to the guy with the GS125, and after lots of tea and cigarettes he agreed to 4250. Which, after seeing what else was available, doesn't seem that bad. It's a well built bike with some 'luxuries' (for someone whose last bike was a CG125), like a CV carb, disc brake, OHC, oil filter, rear pegs not on the swingarm etc. He's also helping us get a rack sorted out, and invited us for dinner tomorrow. So, probably a bit expensive, but not horribly so, and we're on the road.

Tomorrow I'll borrow their tools to check the valve clearance and clean the carb (and check the diaphram in the carb), check the bearings and brake pads get some bags from the market. Good to go, I think. I'll start posting photos too.

@prince666 I'm going to borrow your letter, perhaps adding a line or two. Do you have a translation in Chinese? I will get a friend of mine to translate it into Russian, and post it here. Then I'll get the seller to sign all three copies, in English, Russian and Chinese.

@humanbeing Just saw your post, thank you! I saw in the 'blue book' that the 'owner' is listed. So I guess as this won't be changing, the letter shoud be "I give permission to David to use my motorbike." Is this correct? What use is the Bill-Of-Sale in this case? How could I be the owner if another owner is listed in the blue book? Or are motorbikes legally sold this way in China, without updating the blue book? Sorry, just this is a bit confusing. I'll get the seller to sign a Bill-of-sale and also a permission letter, but, which one should I be showing?

**prince666** · 05-17-2014, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by davidzweig

Figured out quite some stuffs today. Went back to the Yamaha dealer, the bike was 5980, but the registration was another 900 (so 6880) on top, and I would have needed to find someone to register the bike's name in. It's a really nice bike, and I'd use it at home, but that's assuming it makes it back and I can register it there.

I took at look at some more used bikes at some shops, they were mostly either seriously in need of work (vibrating engines, leaking forks, no brakes etc.) or pricey. Went back to the guy with the GS125, and after lots of tea and cigarettes he agreed to 4250. Which, after seeing what else was available, doesn't seem that bad. It's a well built bike with some 'luxuries' (for someone whose last bike was a CG125), like a CV carb, disc brake, OHC, oil filter, rear pegs not on the swingarm etc. He's also helping us get a rack sorted out, and invited us for dinner tomorrow. So, probably a bit expensive, but not horribly so, and we're on the road.

Tomorrow I'll borrow their tools to check the valve clearance and clean the carb (and check the diaphram in the carb), check the bearings and brake pads get some bags from the market. Good to go, I think. I'll start posting photos too.

@prince666 I'm going to borrow your letter, perhaps adding a line or two. Do you have a translation in Chinese? I will get a friend of mine to translate it into Russian, and post it here. Then I'll get the seller to sign all three copies, in English, Russian and Chinese.

@humanbeing Just saw your post, thank you! I saw in the 'blue book' that the 'owner' is listed. So I guess as this won't be changing, the letter shoud be "I give permission to David to use my motorbike." Is this correct? What use is the Bill-Of-Sale in this case? How could I be the owner if another owner is listed in the blue book? Or are motorbikes legally sold this way in China, without updating the blue book? Sorry, just this is a bit confusing. I'll get the seller to sign a Bill-of-sale and also a permission letter, but, which one should I be showing?

Hi Dave

Sure you can thats why i posted , the wife is having a cat nap just now will ask her to do the translation later , but please make sure .

1 . you make sure the owners chinese name in the blue book is the same as you put into the letter ??

2. please make sure you copy the owners chinese I.D. card onto the letter as well and his I.D. chinese name is the same ??? i put my wife I.D. at the bottom but did not post that part for reason you understand ....

3. And why not get the owner to sign the letter but to take a inprint of his right hand thumb and put that on the letter as well here in china best to use RED ink for that part

4. Take a picture of you and the owner next to the bike , this way people can see you did meet the owner of the bike and this ties up nicely with his/her I.D. card, in the picture make sure you can see and read the bikes plate ???

With my letter i don't need this as the owner is my wife? but i will still be taking my wedding license along as well so with me it all ties up ??? cross the t's and dot the eyes

Thats my 2 cents

**davidzweig** · 05-17-2014, 02:05 PM

I made a couple of changes and a 'key' that will make it easier for others to put the right information into the form even if they don't understand the language (ie Russian). Your suggestions are a very good idea, thanks.

---

This part need not be translated:

***1*** : Registered Owners Name
***2*** : Owners ID Number
***3*** : Person using the bike ('User')
***4*** : Users Nationality
***5*** : Users Passport Number
***6*** : Chinese plate No.
***7*** : VIN number
***8*** : Engine number
***9*** : Owners Contact mob number

---

To Whom it May Concern,

I ***1*** (ID: ***2***), the registered owner of the motorbike with the identification numbers listed below, give permission to ***3*** (***4*** Passport Number ***5***) to use said motorbike for an unlimited period, for any purpose he wishes, including taking the motorbike across international borders.

Chinese plate No.: ***6***
VIN number: ***7***
Engine number: ***8***

Please do not hesitate to contact me if any further information is required.

***1***

Contact telephone number ***9***

---

And in Russian, probably a minor error or two, my friend will check it soon..

Для кого это может касаться,

Я, ***1*** (ID: ***2***), юридическим владельцем мотоцикла с идентификационными номерами, перечисленных ниже, разрешаю ***3*** (гражданство: ***4***, Номер паспорта: ***5***) использовать мотоцикл этот на неограниченный срок, для любых целей он желает, в том числе вождения мотоцикла через международные границы.

Китайский номерно́й знак: ***6***
Число VIN: ***7***
Номер двигателя: ***8***

Пожалуйста, не стесняйтесь обращаться ко мне, если требуется любая дополнительная информация.

***1***

Номер телефон ***9***